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  1. #1
    Spectacular Member
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    Default What is it like for old comic book fans?

    I'm 18 years old and have only been reading comics for about 2 or 3 years but those of you who have been around for the older comics, so let's say since Crisis in Infinite Earth's or since the 2000s or something, what has it been like over the past 34 years to read these ever changing and ever growing comics? And how much has comics changed since then?

  2. #2
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    I've become far more chill about any creative decision I don't care for because I've seen enough revamps, reboots, and retcons by now that I know that, sooner or later, most characters and concepts will inevitably return to their most classic (and profitable) incarnations, so there's really not much point getting upset about them. Just read what you like, and ignore the stuff you don't.

    Big sweeping changes, and subsequent returns to the status quo are like buses. Just wait and another one will be around in 5 or 10 minutes. Sometimes you've got to wait a lot longer, but it's often worth it.

    I've also become less concerned about the details, like which specific character is wearing the costume than whether or not the story is good. I still have my preferences, but the story is the most important thing.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member WillieMorgan's Avatar
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    You realise that DC Comics are really not worth getting worked up about. The industry is cyclical and what goes around comes around. You don't like a current writer, characterisation, story-line or direction? Just show a little patience and the usual status quo will inevitably fall back into place in time. Reboots, retcons, underpants being removed from a certain characters costume, taglines like 'The DC universe will never be the same again!!', we've seen it all before. The normal order of things tends to reassert itself.

    You also develop an immunity to being constantly told that the industry is doomed. The markets been on borrowed time for as long as I can remember now. People were telling us that floppies would soon be a thing of the past over a decade ago. There will inevitably be a day of reckoning for the direct market at some stage in the future but decades of reading comics has also shown me that this is a resilient medium. It tends to find a way to survive and endure.

  4. #4
    Amazing Member gordonm's Avatar
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    Like most, I've become blase about "universe-changing" events, "shocking" deaths etc. No matter how much they promise this one will 'stick' you can start the clock on the return/retcon/reboot etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDragonKing View Post
    I'm 18 years old and have only been reading comics for about 2 or 3 years but those of you who have been around for the older comics, so let's say since Crisis in Infinite Earth's or since the 2000s or something, what has it been like over the past 34 years to read these ever changing and ever growing comics? And how much has comics changed since then?
    Kind of like this...


  6. #6
    Fantastic Member qwertyuiop1998's Avatar
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    Interesting question, I'm also curious about how old fans feeling about comics changing during those years since I'm just begin to read comics a few years just like you
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  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Been reading since the early 90's on and off and on the whole I think comics are far better now than they were back then, with a few caveats. The stories and characters are so much better now, but the execution of a lot of it - decompression mostly - has improved collected comics at the expense of individual monthly comics if that makes sense. The stories on the whole are far better than their individual parts. It's a special occasion when a single issue is self contained. The lack of narration or thought balloons also has shortened the reading time of comics a lot. It can take 20-30 minutes to read some of the good old comics compared to being able to read one in 5 even if you're taking time. Compare something like Moore's Saga of the Swamp Thing with your average issue of a Bendis comic that is just dialogue.

    The shift in emphasis from artists in the 90's driving books to writers is another thing, on the whole, that is an improvement, but the lack of consistency in art can be a drawback. I think DC has gotten better at it lately, rotating art teams instead of rushed fill ins, but consistency in art is still important.

    I'm far far less concerned with continuity and what "counts" now than I was back in the day as well. A good story is a good story. I don't care if a bad story from 5 or 10 years ago contradicts it in some way or it can't be perfectly fit into some timeline.

  8. #8
    Incredible Member Adset's Avatar
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    Also been reading since the early 90s.

    I've noticed I don't get upset about creative/editorial directions I disagree with anymore. Stuff's gonna happen, and I'm just along for the ride. I'm a huge Wally West fan, for instance, and I couldn't possibly disagree more with what went down in Heroes in Crisis, but I've long since arrived at the point that there's no use getting upset about it. I'll buy Flash Forward and continue reading the further adventures of one of my favorite characters. I may or may not like it, but it's all one, long narrative with peaks and valleys along the way.

    So while I've calmed, it also cuts both ways -- I rarely get excited about upcoming projects anymore. I remember getting PSYCHED for things like the Age of Apocalypse, or No Man's Land, or whatever. I've now seen enough events fall flat where I'll pick (most) of them up just to keep up, but I rarely, if ever, go in with expectations. Or I'll skip an event, or series, and pick it up a year after the fact on a Comixology sale or something. I'm not TOTALLY dead inside -- I still get jazzed for certain announcements (Morrison on Green Lantern, and Hickman's new X-Men stuff), but I've definitely chilled.

    I also have a far greater appreciation for older/before-my-time stuff. I used to never bother, but I've been really getting into a bunch of Silver Age stuff in recent years.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adset View Post
    So while I've calmed, it also cuts both ways -- I rarely get excited about upcoming projects anymore. I remember getting PSYCHED for things like the Age of Apocalypse, or No Man's Land, or whatever. I've now seen enough events fall flat where I'll pick (most) of them up just to keep up, but I rarely, if ever, go in with expectations. Or I'll skip an event, or series, and pick it up a year after the fact on a Comixology sale or something. I'm not TOTALLY dead inside -- I still get jazzed for certain announcements (Morrison on Green Lantern, and Hickman's new X-Men stuff), but I've definitely chilled.
    I haven't been reading that long - I mean, for definitely well over a decade, but not for decades. And I only started reading monthly books on the reg, instead of picking up trades exclusively, in 2011 with the New 52 reboot.

    And yet, I still feel the same way you described about not being too bothered about disliked changes anymore, and about rarely getting hyped. I'm truly excited for Superman Bashes the Klan, and pretty much nothing else. Which sucks, right? I've heard the JL series with Jarro is good, my fiancee is loving Martian Manhunter, and yet... I rarely even bother to buy new books anymore. They just don't do much for me.

    Then again, maybe I'm speaking too soon, or misinterpreting a current jadedness as a habitual one. After all, I might not be excited exactly about like, the new Jimmy Olsen, but the first issue definitely sparked joy when I read it.
    Last edited by Adekis; 08-08-2019 at 05:09 PM.
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  10. #10
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    High blood pressure, high cholesterol, arthritis, . . . oh, you wanted to know about comic books?

  11. #11
    Boisterously Confused
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    I've been reading since the 1970s, and it's clear that the audience has changed (or at least, who DC believes the audience is has changed). The complexity and sophistication of story have increased, but unfortunately, so has the sense of bleakness. The childishly naive notion that bashing our problems in the nose is a sensible answer persists, but the notion that we can meaningfully address human woes seems to have been left behind.

    The motivations of characters doing something positive because it's right has faded away. In its place has arisen a notion that protagonists must react to something wrong, whether that's a tragedy they suffered or a failing they must redeem.

    The art has changed. There has always been good and bad, but the modern trend seems to look more like movie storyboards than self-contained story-telling instruments. That's doubtlessly influenced by their role as mass media brands today. DC (and Marvel) comics have become minor components of larger Intellectual Property sales campaigns than entertainment media in their own right.

    Others have mentioned the shift towards arc (that can be packaged as TPBs). With tht has come a a sense of story first, character, if convenient. Don't get me wrong, story has always mattered. That said, part of this medium has always been about following characters who were distinct in some form (Justice League somewhat lost that late in the Silver Age, it it came back strong in the Bronze Age thru Nu52). The TPB Novelization approach, however, has enabled writers to distort characters to ease execution of specific story points they want to make (Identity Crisis was probably the most drastic example, but there have been plenty of others, both before and since). This results in an inconsistency of both characterization, and world building, because each new writer tends to drop or ignore what came before.

    ETA: Beginning with Crisis on Infinite Earths, comics have become increasingly event-centric. DC learned that they can get fans to buy more titles to have the complete story, and we haven't taught them differently yet. I suspect the TPB trend mentioned in the last two paragraphs has accelerated that. How intrusive those events got on the individual titles at DC waxed and waned over the years; in cases like Millenium, it got really heavy handed.

    The various, and cumulative effects of those last two paragraphs have contributed to shrinking of the comics world. There was a sense in the older comics that heroes inhabited an environment full of characters. That's shifted toward them existing against a backdrop that seems somewhat more shallow.

    One thing has changed for the better (IMO): comics are more widely accepted as a past time than once they were. For some of us, being a comics fan was something of a guilty pleasure we felt pressured to hide away. With big studios realizing there's gold in them-thar capes, comics in general, and superheroes in particular, are no longer something that's quite so niche.
    Last edited by DrNewGod; 08-08-2019 at 08:57 AM.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I've been reading since the 1970s, and it's clear that the audience has changed (or at least, who DC believes the audience is has changed). The complexity and sophistication of story have increased, but unfortunately, so has the sense of bleakness. The childishly naive notion that bashing our problems in the nose is a sensible answer persists, but the notion that we can meaningfully address human woes seems to have been left behind.

    The motivations of characters doing something positive because it's right has faded away. In its place has arisen a notion that protagonists must react to something wrong, whether that's a tragedy they suffered or a failing they must redeem.

    The art has changed. There has always been good and bad, but the modern trend seems to look more like movie storyboards than self-contained story-telling instruments. That's doubtlessly influenced by their role as mass media brands today. DC (and Marvel) comics have become minor components of larger Intellectual Property sales campaigns than entertainment media in their own right.

    Others have mentioned the shift towards arc (that can be packaged as TPBs). With tht has come a a sense of story first, character, if convenient. Don't get me wrong, story has always mattered. That said, part of this medium has always been about following characters who were distinct in some form (Justice League somewhat lost that late in the Silver Age, it it came back strong in the Bronze Age thru Nu52). The TPB Novelization approach, however, has enabled writers to distort characters to ease execution of specific story points they want to make (Identity Crisis was probably the most drastic example, but there have been plenty of others, both before and since). This results in an inconsistency of both characterization, and world building, because each new writer tends to drop or ignore what came before.

    ETA: Beginning with Crisis on Infinite Earths, comics have become increasingly event-centric. DC learned that they can get fans to buy more titles to have the complete story, and we haven't taught them differently yet. I suspect the TPB trend mentioned in the last two paragraphs has accelerated that. How intrusive those events got on the individual titles at DC waxed and waned over the years; in cases like Millenium, it got really heavy handed.

    The various, and cumulative effects of those last two paragraphs have contributed to shrinking of the comics world. There was a sense in the older comics that heroes inhabited an environment full of characters. That's shifted toward them existing against a backdrop that seems somewhat more shallow.

    One thing has changed for the better (IMO): comics are more widely accepted as a past time than once they were. For some of us, being a comics fan was something of a guilty pleasure we felt pressured to hide away. With big studios realizing there's gold in them-thar capes, comics in general, and superheroes in particular, are no longer something that's quite so niche.
    Reading since the 70's as well and couldn't have said it better. Good job.

  13. #13
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I've been reading since the 1970s, and it's clear that the audience has changed (or at least, who DC believes the audience is has changed). The complexity and sophistication of story have increased, but unfortunately, so has the sense of bleakness. The childishly naive notion that bashing our problems in the nose is a sensible answer persists, but the notion that we can meaningfully address human woes seems to have been left behind.

    The motivations of characters doing something positive because it's right has faded away. In its place has arisen a notion that protagonists must react to something wrong, whether that's a tragedy they suffered or a failing they must redeem.

    The art has changed. There has always been good and bad, but the modern trend seems to look more like movie storyboards than self-contained story-telling instruments. That's doubtlessly influenced by their role as mass media brands today. DC (and Marvel) comics have become minor components of larger Intellectual Property sales campaigns than entertainment media in their own right.

    Others have mentioned the shift towards arc (that can be packaged as TPBs). With tht has come a a sense of story first, character, if convenient. Don't get me wrong, story has always mattered. That said, part of this medium has always been about following characters who were distinct in some form (Justice League somewhat lost that late in the Silver Age, it it came back strong in the Bronze Age thru Nu52). The TPB Novelization approach, however, has enabled writers to distort characters to ease execution of specific story points they want to make (Identity Crisis was probably the most drastic example, but there have been plenty of others, both before and since). This results in an inconsistency of both characterization, and world building, because each new writer tends to drop or ignore what came before.

    ETA: Beginning with Crisis on Infinite Earths, comics have become increasingly event-centric. DC learned that they can get fans to buy more titles to have the complete story, and we haven't taught them differently yet. I suspect the TPB trend mentioned in the last two paragraphs has accelerated that. How intrusive those events got on the individual titles at DC waxed and waned over the years; in cases like Millenium, it got really heavy handed.

    The various, and cumulative effects of those last two paragraphs have contributed to shrinking of the comics world. There was a sense in the older comics that heroes inhabited an environment full of characters. That's shifted toward them existing against a backdrop that seems somewhat more shallow.

    One thing has changed for the better (IMO): comics are more widely accepted as a past time than once they were. For some of us, being a comics fan was something of a guilty pleasure we felt pressured to hide away. With big studios realizing there's gold in them-thar capes, comics in general, and superheroes in particular, are no longer something that's quite so niche.
    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    Reading since the 70's as well and couldn't have said it better. Good job.
    I agree.

    I've been reading since about 1980 and I feel the same way.

    I'm truly hoping we'll get a renaissance in the next decade of creators wanting to bring back a sense of wonder to comics and celebrate the medium's roots. And be as adamant about it as the creators of the '80s and '90s were about shedding the 'Comics are for Kids' image.

    We've climbed that hill. Comics have come into their own.
    Now it's time to show people just why comics existed for so long before they were 'accepted'.

    New readers come into comics all the time and they hear about how good comics used to be.
    Almost all the classic 'must read' stories are from the Silver and Bronze Ages.
    They must've been doing something right.
    And they must be doing something wrong now if nearly nothing today can stand alongside those classics.
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  14. #14
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDragonKing View Post
    I'm 18 years old and have only been reading comics for about 2 or 3 years but those of you who have been around for the older comics, so let's say since Crisis in Infinite Earth's or since the 2000s or something, what has it been like over the past 34 years to read these ever changing and ever growing comics? And how much has comics changed since then?
    IT hás been great for 20 years and then it has really sucked for about fifteen. And I Jean REALLY sucked.
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    Extraordinary Member MRP's Avatar
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    I've been reading comics since about 1973. The absolute biggest difference now from then is the sense I can read just about any comics now at any time and not have to worry about missing one. Growing up, I had no sense of a back issue market, comic shops or what have you, if you missed an issue on the newsstand or your newsstand didn't carry a particular issue, you were out of luck. The only way you would ever get to read it is if you knew someone who had it, stumbled upon it at someone's house, etc. The only way to get older stories were through reprint series (from series like Marvel Tales or Marvel Triple Action, DC annuals or 80 page giants, fill in issues because of missed deadlines or what have you. Occasionally things like Origins of Marvel Comics or the Tempo DC paperbacks would show up with older stories but they were few and far between. Even when I discovered a comic shop in the mid-80s when I was in high school, it was still possible to miss issues with no guarantee you could find a back issue, and you were still limited to what your local shop had for back issues to buy. The likelihood of you being able to find a particular issue to read was slim even in the best of circumstances, and there was an inherent urgency to have a pull list or be there to get a book as soon as it came out to make sure you could read a given story. Discovering conventions broadened the possibilities of finding back issues or missed issues, getting a car expanded the number of shops I could look for, but there was still a sense of limited availability. Now, now so much. The advent of the internet (with things like ebay and online comic book stores, the birth of the trade paperback industry, all made it possible to gain access to more and more books, increasing the possibilities and lessening the urgency to have to buy things as they came out to read them. Add in digital comics and things like Marvel Unlimited and DC Universe, the growth of trades in public libraries, services through libraries like Hoopla, legal websites carrying digital copies of public domain comics, etc. and now there is a sense that you can read just about any comic form any era at any time that you want to with minimal effort. It certainly is a world of possibilities, but it creates a different feel when discovering a comic A bit of the sense of wonder and discovery is gone. And the sense of urgency in making sure you get a copy right away is definitely gone. It also makes me a lot pickier about what I read. I used to read just about any comic I could get my hand on, because it was so hard to get a lot of comics for me growing up, that each one was a treasure to be read multiple times, devoured so you knew it inside and out, now, it takes something really special to get me to read a comic more than once, and there are a lot of comics I just have no interest in reading any more because there are so many other options, form so many different eras easily available to me that I can pass on things without feeling I lost out at all.

    On the one hand, it makes the current era a bit of a golden age in terms of accessibility and choice when it comes to comic reading, on the other hand, it makes the experience a lot more mundane as well.

    -M
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