View Poll Results: Which is better at showcasing romance

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  • The Arrowverse

    6 28.57%
  • The MCU

    6 28.57%
  • Both

    0 0%
  • Neither

    9 42.86%
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  1. #16
    Spectacular Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Arrowverse is a TV show, there is more time to develop a romance than a movie series. The obvious answer is Arrowverse but the two should hardly be compared.

    Comparing MCU Phase 1 vs the current DC films is much fair and balanced or the Arrowverse vs MCU Netflix.

    It is highly impossible for a movie series to tell a romance better than a tv series of 14-22 episodes unless the TV series is very bad.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-08-2019 at 10:01 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Arrowverse is a TV show, there is more time to develop a romance than a movie series. The obvious answer is Arrowverse but the two should hardly be compared.

    Comparing MCU Phase 1 vs the current DC films is much fair and balanced or the Arrowverse vs MCU Netflix.

    It is highly impossible for a movie series to tell a romance better than a tv series of 14-22 episodes unless the TV series is very bad.
    Exactly the Arrowverse romances are that bad. They do the impossible and make it look easy.

  3. #18
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    It’s more that Arrowverse, as part and parcel of its more soap opera basis, is far more interested in “The Chase” than it is is “The Fallout.”... which is maybe the one area where the MCU actually tries, as part of its more “sitcom” based nature.

    What this tends to mean is that if a romance is important to a CW show, it’s going to be dragged out... which is where I think most of the weaknesses of the soap opera formula show up, because I don’t think the CW shows actually write long, drawn out courtships very well at all.

    They actually do quite a bit better when it’s a side romance they aren’t focusing on wringing the angst-based drama out of. In fact, I’d maybe argue that if you remove the main romances and use the side ones, Arrowverse should take it pretty cleanly...

    ...It’s just that the constant self-sabotage and inability to avoid their addiction to overwrought and stupid conflict in the main ones is endemic to the weaknesses of the CW style soap opera.

    The MCU barely cares about romance, which, in a good movie, ends up making the romantic interest more of a character on their own contributing to the plot rather than being defined by romantic drama that occasionally slips into dreck too often. When the MCU does badly, the romance is basically a non-factor that just wastes time.
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  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    It’s more that Arrowverse, as part and parcel of its more soap opera basis, is far more interested in “The Chase” than it is is “The Fallout.”... which is maybe the one area where the MCU actually tries, as part of its more “sitcom” based nature.

    What this tends to mean is that if a romance is important to a CW show, it’s going to be dragged out... which is where I think most of the weaknesses of the soap opera formula show up, because I don’t think the CW shows actually write long, drawn out courtships very well at all.

    They actually do quite a bit better when it’s a side romance they aren’t focusing on wringing the angst-based drama out of. In fact, I’d maybe argue that if you remove the main romances and use the side ones, Arrowverse should take it pretty cleanly...

    ...It’s just that the constant self-sabotage and inability to avoid their addiction to overwrought and stupid conflict in the main ones is endemic to the weaknesses of the CW style soap opera.

    The MCU barely cares about romance, which, in a good movie, ends up making the romantic interest more of a character on their own contributing to the plot rather than being defined by romantic drama that occasionally slips into dreck too often. When the MCU does badly, the romance is basically a non-factor that just wastes time.
    Hulk and Black Widow?

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Hulk and Black Widow?
    We basically saw the breakup to a relationship we didn't know even existed up until that point.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    We basically saw the breakup to a relationship we didn't know even existed up until that point.
    And we’re still spared hours upon hours of good actors being forced to do stupid things over and over again.

    ...I’m not going to lie, a lot of my frustration with the Arrowverse and CW soap opera approach comes down to having loved Felicity when her crush on Oliver was played largely as a soap opera and her character became a hilarious but important component to the show’s success... only to have her character served up a whole bunch of dreck around Oliver when she became the main love interest. It seemed to confirm the theory I had about where Laurel was written badly in Seasons 1 & 2: that’s just how the Arrowverse thinks love interests *have* to be written - to maximize drama at the expense of *everything* else about a character or chemistry, and be unable to break that habit when you really, really should.
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  7. #22
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    And we’re still spared hours upon hours of good actors being forced to do stupid things over and over again.

    ...I’m not going to lie, a lot of my frustration with the Arrowverse and CW soap opera approach comes down to having loved Felicity when her crush on Oliver was played largely as a soap opera and her character became a hilarious but important component to the show’s success... only to have her character served up a whole bunch of dreck around Oliver when she became the main love interest. It seemed to confirm the theory I had about where Laurel was written badly in Seasons 1 & 2: that’s just how the Arrowverse thinks love interests *have* to be written - to maximize drama at the expense of *everything* else about a character or chemistry, and be unable to break that habit when you really, really should.
    I stopped watching all the comics shows a while ago, because they can't seem to allow characters to grow.

    Flash: Barry keeps mucking with the timestream, over and over AGAIN despite it always making things worse. Plus, when Savitar was revealed as that season's villain, I was finished with Evil Speedster of the Moment and turned it off. Plus I think there was actually less time travel in Dr. Who.

    Arrow: Oliver keeps secrets AGAIN. And they come back in the worst way AGAIN.

    SHIELD: Another overly contrived wall falls between Fitz and Simmons AGAIN.

    The romantic execution wasn't my biggest issue, it was the word AGAIN being in too many plot summaries.
    "Theory: The Phoenix doesn't corrupt the characters, it corrupts the authors." Gambit, King of Thieves

  8. #23
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    And we’re still spared hours upon hours of good actors being forced to do stupid things over and over again.
    At the same time probably one of the weakest aspects of Age of Ultron, which is probably why they went well out of their way never to acknowledge it again.

  9. #24
    Smiles but not on command Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    I'd also give a huge nod to the Arrowverse for handling gay relationship correctly as they don't even talk about them being gay relationships. They are front and center yet never even made into any kind of big deal. Which is awesome because this is the best way to normalize them to the masses plus it keeps the characters from being the "gay" character whose major defining characteristic is being gay. Curtis on Arrow was gay and had a husband but he was always first and foremost Mr Terrific who made gadgets for the team. Too often on TV when a character is gay everything else becomes secondary. Its sort of what worries about Batwoman because there is so much focus on her being lesbian that I worry it will overshadow everything else about her. And its not as if she's even remotely the first gay character in the Arrowverse or even lead character as Sara is the lead character on Legends and is bisexual but mostly is with women.

    While not a comic book show another CW show, The 100, also does it right. Many gay and lesbian characters front and center and no makes into a deal. And the lead character is lesbian - some might say she's bi but she hasn't been with a guy since season one so I view her as a lesbian who didn't accept her own sexuality til early adulthood and will continue to do so unless she ends up with a guy again.
    That's a good point. I remember Tom Selleck doing an interview about a character he played that was gay and admitting he learned a valuable lesson. The director was gay and Selleck kept trying to figure out how to play the character, who he was, basically method acting. One day, he went running to the director and said, "Hey, I finally know how to play this character. I understand who he is. He's gay." The director responded, "Wow, it's a good thing for us you didn't bring that kind of profound insight to the role of Thomas Magnum, otherwise "Magnum, P.I." would have lasted one season and nobody would remember it".

    So very true that the CW shows handle homosexuality in the best possible way. Captain Singh isn't a gay character. He's a police captain who happens to be gay. It's completely normalized which may be the best way to, well, normalize it.

    Back in the late 1960s and early 1970s, some shows were criticized for normalizing race, showing black and white people working together and being friends with no racial tensions. The argument was that it did not reflect the real world but it may well have changed young people's perceptions of how things should be.

    To answer the actual question, the CW does some things better than the MCU largely because they have more time but they also do some things worse because they have more time.
    "I'm not what you think I am". Higher, further, faster.

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