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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Default How should future X-Men and X-Men-related comics handle human/mutant relations?

    I've come to the conclusion that the mutants are as feared as much as they are in the Marvel Universe because the writers are writing them like they're still in the 1960s, if not, in a more backwards time, all while the Fantastic Four and other mutate superheroes are relatively treated less harshly despite also having supernatural powers like the mutants do.

    I think the human/mutant relations is portrayed as a little too backwards/non-progressive, perhaps more than it should. I realize the X-Men were created to serve as a parallel to the Civil Rights Movement and persecuted minorities in 1963, but on the other hand, we're not in 1963 anymore and, at the very least, I think it's reasonable enough to say that the world in 2019 isn't quite the same as it was in 1963.

    Yes, there's still hatred in 2019. Yes, there's still racism in 2019. Yes, there's still scapegoating of groups of various backgrounds to the point of suffering in 2019. I'm not denying any of that. At the same time though, considering how there are quite a few successful celebrities of minority backgrounds, such as black actors, black athletes, black comedians, black musicians that are popular and respected by the public by and large, which are situations that can also help spread a message of equality to them, as well as there being numerous black politicians, and America in 2019 just being in a distinctly different place than how it was in 1963, such as with interracial marriages, all aspects considered overall and kept in mind, then I'd like to see a shake-up in the human/mutant dynamic in the series.

    I'm definitely not saying to get rid of the minority persecution aspect of the series, as black celebrities don't always have it peachy keen either. I guess I just think that having a more "human-embracing" aspect towards mutants in addition would make for a more interesting shake-up in the current status quo, which at many times can seem to pigeonhole mutants as seemingly being only destined to suffer. As well as it how it help the series be more interestingly progressive rather than uninterestingly (and perhaps over-depressingly) regressive. The human vs. mutants relation just ends up seeming more like a demon hunters vs. demons relation, resulting in more of a commentary of religion rather than other aspects such as race, despite many writers' intentions.

    Note: After seeing confusion in some of the replies, I felt compelled to further clarify that I don't speak of entertainment as something that can "make all racism magically disappear," but as a concept, along with politics and other venues that attract a lot of attention, that can incline the public to see people of minority backgrounds in a better light, incline to understand them, and incline to treat them more as equals. Yes, the media alone can't solve all racism issues, but can still play a significant role in helping shape public perception of minorities, which surely has importance in of itself, and it's for reasons such as that I think that seeing the mutants tackle stuff like that would help inspire some interesting and varied storylines as well.
    Last edited by Electricmastro; 08-14-2019 at 03:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    I've come to the conclusion that the mutants are as feared as much as they are in the Marvel Universe because the writers are writing them like they're still in the 1960s, if not, in a more backwards time, all while the Fantastic Four and other mutate superheroes are relatively treated less harshly despite also having supernatural powers like the mutants do.

    I think the human/mutant relations is portrayed as a little too backwards/non-progressive, perhaps more than it should. I realize the X-Men were created to serve as a parallel to the Civil Rights Movement and persecuted minorities in 1963, but on the other hand, we're not in 1963 anymore and, at the very least, I think it's reasonable enough to say that the world in 2019 isn't quite the same as it was in 1963.

    Yes, there's still hatred in 2019. Yes, there's still racism in 2019. Yes, there's still scapegoating of groups of various backgrounds to the point of suffering in 2019. I'm not denying any of that. At the same time though, considering how there are quite a few successful celebrities of minority backgrounds, such as black actors, black athletes, black comedians, black musicians that are popular and beloved by the public by and large, as well as black politicians, and America in 2019 just being in a distinctly different place than how it was in 1963, all aspects considered overall and kept in mind, then I'd like to see a shake-up in the human/mutant dynamic in the series.

    I'm definitely not saying to get rid of the minority persecution aspect of the series, as black celebrities don't always have it peachy keen either. I guess I just think that having a more "human-embracing" aspect towards mutants in addition would make for a more interesting shake-up in the current status quo, which at many times can seem to pigeonhole mutants as seemingly being only destined to suffer. As well as it how it help the series be more interestingly progressive rather than uninterestingly (and perhaps over-depressingly) regressive.
    Can we PLEASE stop using actors and entertainers as some barometer for race relationships. People shouldn't have to freaking entertain somebody for them to be accepted. I just feel that is like the worse example to use when it comes to how people are seen based on race relations. And some would argue we are still in 1963. Especially when the best example someone can come up with for decent race relations are entertainers, and politicans which out of 535 only 50 are black. So yeah it hasn't been that long in universe or out of it. But heres hoping things do get better but the only way thats going to work is if people just stop being prejudice about people they know nothing about.

    This whole line of thinking is flawed from the ground up. Yeesh.
    Don't let anyone else hold the candle that lights the way to your future because only you can sustain the flame.

  3. #3
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    I feel like there should always be some tension between humans and mutants just like different groups of humans in real life. However the X-Men are superheroes so the stories should rotate between dealing with evil humans and mutants since their presence will make human/mutant relations worse and handling baddies who are just bad for the sake of being bad.
    "Cable was right!"

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Can we PLEASE stop using actors and entertainers as some barometer for race relationships. People shouldn't have to freaking entertain somebody for them to be accepted. I just feel that is like the worse example to use when it comes to how people are seen based on race relations. And some would argue we are still in 1963. Especially when the best example someone can come up with for decent race relations are entertainers, and politicans which out of 535 only 50 are black. So yeah it hasn't been that long in universe or out of it. But heres hoping things do get better but the only way thats going to work is if people just stop being prejudice about people they know nothing about.

    This whole line of thinking is flawed from the ground up. Yeesh.
    completely agreed

  5. #5
    Fantastic Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    Without "race" relations in X-Books these books would simply just be super hero books. There needs to be tension beyond "boogeymen" to make a great book IMO, and without some core element of mutants being hated/feared on some level we just don't have a reason for these characters to rally together.

    Might be a predicable trope for these books sometimes? Sure... but honestly I feel like we've seen some real creativity with this idea through the years. It becomes a tired keystone only when the writers involved use it as a crutch as opposed to a running thread.

  6. #6
    Out Fighting for Peace! AJpyro's Avatar
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    First arc is to kill of Sublime forever after humanity discovers it.

    Humanity aint gonna let some germ dictate their hate for mutants!
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    SCOTT SUMMERS AND EMMA FROST DESERVED BETTER.

  7. #7
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwatson View Post
    Can we PLEASE stop using actors and entertainers as some barometer for race relationships. People shouldn't have to freaking entertain somebody for them to be accepted. I just feel that is like the worse example to use when it comes to how people are seen based on race relations. And some would argue we are still in 1963. Especially when the best example someone can come up with for decent race relations are entertainers, and politicans which out of 535 only 50 are black. So yeah it hasn't been that long in universe or out of it. But heres hoping things do get better but the only way thats going to work is if people just stop being prejudice about people they know nothing about.

    This whole line of thinking is flawed from the ground up. Yeesh.
    I'm sorry you don't see the importance of black people achieving success, whether they do it as comedians and actors (and politicians), as if they're people that shouldn't be considered despite how much impact they've had in American culture. It's not "just about entertainers that entertain," but also the success many of them have achieved, which can help play a role as to how white people view black people, and other minority groups for that matter, and also play a role in lessening misunderstandings of people they actually don't know and the prejudice against them. On the subject of "flawed thinking," it's interesting you suggest that we're still in 1963, even though Jim Crow laws were in 1963 and aren't in place today for one, as well as how racist black stereotypes have become relatively less common to the point that the person who commits the stereotypes is widely shamed and labeled as foolish in today's society. Again, this isn't to deny that racism is still around, but to argue that 2019 is the same as 1963 is quite the stretch, and can downplay the importance of all the progress made since that time, all aspects considered. If you ask me, looking at the good, the bad, and the ugly facts altogether on the table in clear view doesn't downplay the bad and the ugly, but doesn't downplay the good either, as I feel that doing so can help one better understand the whole picture of society.

    In any event, I hope you can learn to better appreciate the impact the media can have and the success and respect and achievements that can come with them.

    Have a nice day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    I feel like there should always be some tension between humans and mutants just like different groups of humans in real life. However the X-Men are superheroes so the stories should rotate between dealing with evil humans and mutants since their presence will make human/mutant relations worse and handling baddies who are just bad for the sake of being bad.
    Oh totally. I'm not disagreeing with that idea at all, in that there should always been some tension between humans and mutants, as that can help parallel real life. That said though, if it gets to the point that 99% of humans (unless all the human mutates turn on them as well, making it 100%), then I get the concern that the human/mutant relation becomes less varied and more predictable at that point, no matter which writers you bring in. IDK, an idea I had is that if there were more mutants, akin to Dazzler, that achieved considerable success and popularity, became celebrities, and it was publicly discovered much later that said celebrities were mutants, then I can't help but be interested in what types of characterizations and storylines could come from such a dynamic. And I'm sure this could all convincingly happen in conjunction with the superhero fighting against evil humans and evil mutants.

  8. #8
    Fantastic Member davetvs's Avatar
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    The same way race relations are in 2019...poor with the occasional spots of hope. I find it so interesting that there seem to be swaths of fans who want to see the X-Men "evolve" beyond being hated and feared by humanity when ethnic minorities, LGBTQ, and women are still struggling for societal acceptance and equal treatment under the law.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    I like the idea of the mutants finally getting a stable nation. When Genosha first came about I was actually hoping that the X-Teams would move there and become part of the leadership of the country. I am keeping my fingers crossed that after HoX/PoX finishes that mutants still have their own nation and they can write stories about the sensitive political climate of the countries of the world that oppose their right to have a nation. I want it to be a situation where the mutants who stay in the country actually can live their day to day lives without being under the constant threat of human oppression. This gives you the chance to write stories that are internal to the X-Nation, and stories that are external to the X-Nation. It also gives the writers the opportunity to have some stories about the politics of maintaining peace with the world at large.

  10. #10
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    The same way race relations are in 2019...poor with the occasional spots of hope. I find it so interesting that there seem to be swaths of fans who want to see the X-Men "evolve" beyond being hated and feared by humanity when ethnic minorities, LGBTQ, and women are still struggling for societal acceptance and equal treatment under the law.
    Man. What country are you from?
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  11. #11
    Astonishing Member jwatson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    I'm sorry you don't see the importance of black people achieving success, whether they do it as comedians and actors (and politicians), as if they're people that shouldn't be considered despite how much impact they've had in American culture. It's not "just about entertainers that entertain," but also the success many of them have achieved, which can help play a role as to how white people view black people, and other minority groups for that matter, and also play a role in lessening misunderstandings of people they actually don't know and the prejudice against them. On the subject of "flawed thinking," it's interesting you suggest that we're still in 1963, even though Jim Crow laws were in 1963 and aren't in place today for one, as well as how racist black stereotypes have become relatively less common to the point that the person who commits the stereotypes is widely shamed and labeled as foolish in today's society. Again, this isn't to deny that racism is still around, but to argue that 2019 is the same as 1963 is quite the stretch, and can downplay the importance of all the progress made since that time, all aspects considered. If you ask me, looking at the good, the bad, and the ugly facts altogether on the table in clear view doesn't downplay the bad and the ugly, but doesn't downplay the good either, as I feel that doing so can help one better understand the whole picture of society.

    In any event, I hope you can learn to better appreciate the impact the media can have and the success and respect and achievements that can come with them.

    Have a nice day.



    Oh totally. I'm not disagreeing with that idea at all, in that there should always been some tension between humans and mutants, as that can help parallel real life. That said though, if it gets to the point that 99% of humans (unless all the human mutates turn on them as well, making it 100%), then I get the concern that the human/mutant relation becomes less varied and more predictable at that point, no matter which writers you bring in. IDK, an idea I had is that if there were more mutants, akin to Dazzler, that achieved considerable success and popularity, became celebrities, and it was publicly discovered much later that said celebrities were mutants, then I can't help but be interested in what types of characterizations and storylines could come from such a dynamic. And I'm sure this could all convincingly happen in conjunction with the superhero fighting against evil humans and evil mutants.
    And i'm sorry you don't see how it comes off that you are basically saying things are better in a world where we have charlottes ville, and all the other hate crimes going on here in america. I also think it's funny you use supposed celebrities but when it came to colin kapernik no one cared about his words as a person but rather if he was entertaining them or not. Sitting at hom and watching How to Get Away with Murder or the wayans brothers is not giving a realistic image of the everyday person, that is a sensationlized person and in most cases people don't want to hear what they have to say about how they feel about race relations but yet want to sit back and tell other people what they are and aren't experiencing when they have no idea. Even Oprah got followed around in a store for shopping while black. Your whole premise comes off as juvenile thinking imo and you can up-play the rare instances of quiet celebrity all you want but that still doesn't stop all you personally aren't seeing or don't want to see. Sounds like you want someone to make things easier for you, when you should be trying to help make things easier for everyone by not making excuses such as but so and so is famous instead of asking "What's the real underlying issue?"
    Last edited by jwatson; 08-08-2019 at 12:23 PM.
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  12. #12
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    There are child concentration camps in America, a white supremacist shot up a Walmart to kill as many Latinx people as possible and an arrested black man was paraded through the streets by the police this weekend.

    I think the idea that humanity would gladly exterminate mutants if they could not that unbelievable in a 2019 Marvel Universe. Despite them all listening to Dazzler and Lila Cheney music.

  13. #13
    Fantastic Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    Yeah even if a super powered individual appeared in real life, the insurance companies alone would parade them around in a stockade so they wouldn't have to pay out accidental death and dismemberment plans as "act of god" claims.

  14. #14
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    One thing to consider is that in the MU, people just heard of the existence of mutants for the 1st time less than 15 years ago.

  15. #15
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    is the most in-depth exploration of the relationship between mutants and the media seriously x-statix
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