Super Hero Deconstruction comics

[katefan]

So the term "deconstruction" gets thrown around a bit, that idea of a hero being made to perhaps look less heroic as the writer/artist attempts to perhaps humanize them or tell a deeper tale. I think one example might be Frank Miller's Batman, The Dark Knight. The big one of course is Alan Moore/Dave Gibbon's Watchmen. Can anyone here suggest other DC stories or comics, either modern or classic, where deconstructionism is prevalent?

[Electricmastro]

Superman: Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, which explores ideas such as the Silver Age Superman having to kill, something which he wouldn't have done under usual circumstances.

[iron chimp]

The Boys would be obvious one.

[kjn]

That really depends on what is meant with the term "deconstruction". It's vague enough as used by Derrida, and the usage as used here or in other examples of pop culture criticism is a lot removed from Derrida's already vague definition.

But if the meaning of deconstruction is taken to be to examine and possibly expose the assumptions of a genre, then The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen are of course excellent examples. Other good examples might be "Oracle: Year One" by Ostrander and Kim Yale, New Frontier by Darwyn Cooke, or The Hiketeia by Greg Rucka.

[Agent Z]

That really depends on what is meant with the term "deconstruction". It's vague enough as used by Derrida, and the usage as used here or in other examples of pop culture criticism is a lot removed from Derrida's already vague definition.

But if the meaning of deconstruction is taken to be to examine and possibly expose the assumptions of a genre, then The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen are of course excellent examples. Other good examples might be "Oracle: Year One" by Ostrander and Kim Yale, New Frontier by Darwyn Cooke, or The Hiketeia by Greg Rucka.

May I ask how Oracle: Year One is a deconstruction.

[Vakanai]

Kind of hard for me to tell, since I've always had a bit of trouble understanding exactly what is meant by "deconstruction", but going with "to examine and possibly expose the assumptions of a genre" and add "characters" to that, I'd say Batman: The White Knight is kind of an interesting deconstruction of the Batman/Joker dynamic I think.

[caj]

I don't know what Keith Giffen & Co were trying to do with Sun Boy/Dirk Morgna in the 5-year later Legion, but they sure made him less-heroic for sure.

[caj]

Dick Grayson kind of went through this when Starfire married someone else in New Teen Titans.

[kjn]

May I ask how Oracle: Year One is a deconstruction.

To some degree it's a subjective "I know it when I see it", and you probably have to take the entire creation of Oracle into account, but it carries an implied criticism of the way women are treated in comics and does it by making women and wounds visible and explicit. It also criticises Batman's actions, reactions, and priorities in TKJ in a way that makes them universal: Barbara's words to Batman reaches outside the confines of the panel and hits DC, and arguably the entire comics industry.

[Godlike13]

To some degree it's a subjective "I know it when I see it", and you probably have to take the entire creation of Oracle into account, but it carries an implied criticism of the way women are treated in comics and does it by making women and wounds visible and explicit. It also criticises Batman's actions, reactions, and priorities in TKJ in a way that makes them universal: Barbara's words to Batman reaches outside the confines of the panel and hits DC, and arguably the entire comics industry.

I don’t know if it is subjective. It comments on how women are treated, and how Babs was treated, but ultimately it was as story about reconstruction. Part of the grossness of Babs’ story is she wasn’t even given the respect or thought to actually deconstruct who she was. As Oracle Year One points out what happen to her wasn’t even about her. She was just fodder.

[SiegePerilous02]

The Boys would be obvious one.

From what little I've read in the Boys, that's more just Ennis bitching and moaning about them and making them as horrible as possible to justify pissing on them.
And propping up his favorite archetypes at their expense, or at least not savaging his favorite "Tough Guys" nearly as badly.

[Jim Kelly]

Alan Moore's Marvelman was the poster child for deconstruction. Mick Anglo's Marvelman was an ersatz Captain Marvel that was created to take the place of the Big Red Cheese in the 1950s when Fawcett went out of business and the British publisher had no more Marvel Family stories to print. While Moore's revival of Marvelman in 1982 subverted the wholesome family values of the characters.

Moore then goes on to do more deconstruction style work. But I would say that Supreme is a different case. Because Rob Liefeld had created Supreme to be a testosterone fueled Superman copy and when Alan Moore took over he infused the character with some of the classic Superman optimism. This is probably what you would call reconstruction.

[iron chimp]

From what little I've read in the Boys, that's more just Ennis bitching and moaning about them and making them as horrible as possible to justify pissing on them.
And propping up his favorite archetypes at their expense, or at least not savaging his favorite "Tough Guys" nearly as badly.

There are big themes about corporate art and politics, the comics industry, merchandising, and why we expect our corporate heroes to behave in ways that humans dont behave amongst other things.

But yes if you havent read it then it will look as you describe it.

[ed2962]

When I think of deconstruction I think of stories where the whole point of the narrative is to call out tropes and conventions of the genre or the form. Not just a character questioning themselves or going through hard times when you're not used to seeing them do so. Something like "Black Hammer" or the recent "Thunderbolt" would be examples of deconstruction to me.

[j9ac9k]

When I think of deconstruction I think of stories where the whole point of the narrative is to call out tropes and conventions of the genre or the form. Not just a character questioning themselves or going through hard times when you're not used to seeing them do so. Something like "Black Hammer" or the recent "Thunderbolt" would be examples of deconstruction to me.

I'd agree with this definition, as well as what Vakanai said on the previous page. I also agree that "Kingdom Come" is a good example.

I think O'Neil's "The Question" went there more than a few times. That Vic Sage could be seen as a comic book hero who gets shot in the head then realizes he's been living a comic book life and begins to question the tropes of violence and heroism that he was born into and whether or not he should still accept them as his existence.