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  1. #226
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    I honestly don't know why this is such a deal-breaker.

    Mutants have always existed, but their existence has been unknown to the wider public until relatively recently - barring some select people who witnessed mutant activities, government organizations, and mutants themselves who were aware of other mutants.

    In 616 continuity, mutants have been around for centuries, and Magneto has been around for decades. But the existence of mutants only became widely known around 10-15 years ago, when Magneto attacked Cape Citadel and the X-men stopped him.

    Its been the same across media. Hell, the Evolution cartoon went a full two seasons without the existence of mutants going public - with a full-fledged X-men and Brotherhood fighting in the backgroung with barely anyone noticing!
    They could start off with an X-Force type concept and have them be a covert ops group until someone decides to expose them to the world.
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  2. #227
    It's no dream... I'm real Silver Phoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivka View Post
    Magneto can definitely remain a Holocaust survivor in any film, and still be relevant in any modern movie, but Marvel Studios and Disney have not made any decisions. As I've said many times before, how can his origin be a "stretch" in a cinematic universe where there are living planets, talking raccoons, Norse gods, characters who can remake reality with the snap of his fingers, etc. etc.? Magneto's history is only a "problem" for people who don't want the Holocaust and the genocides of WWII to be talked about, who want these to be buried and forgotten.
    This.... I agree, I feel Disney wants to disregard the whole holocaust backstory but that is what shaped Erik. I like Giancarlo and he does have the acting prowess to be Erik and even Charles if they wanted but he doesn't have to be either because there are enough characters for him to be.... Moses Magnum pops up in my head but why not Sinister? With makeup and prosthetics....

    They have a blank slate to approach the X-corner of the MCU... if they want to use Magneto, they could portray him as an old recluse the government (SHIELD) is aware of but leave alone on his island (Avalon or Genosha).
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  3. #228

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    him being a Rwandan or Serbian isn't a better story. that's why the change shouldn't be made. it's not rocket science.
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    They could start off with an X-Force type concept and have them be a covert ops group until someone decides to expose them to the world.
    I personally would go with the idea that the X-men were a secret covert ops group working for the government - similar to the original Silver Age premise. They helped the government keep the existence of mutants secrets in return for being able to run the school and ensure that mutants wouldn't be persecuted by the authorities. And as a result of this history, not just mutants like Magneto or Mystique, but even ordinary mutants targeted by humans, view the X-men as 'sell-outs' and traitors - something which leads some of the X-men to doubt the wisdom of Xavier's stance, and sets the stage for the 'evolution' of the team.

    It also ties into an idea which the Dark Phoenix movie touched upon pretty well in its first half, before dropping - the notion that the X-men need to be seen as heroes and saviors by the public at all costs to 'justify' the survival of mutants in society. It mirrors how, in real-life, minorities are expected to prove themselves to be even more 'virtuous', 'loyal' or 'worthy' than other citizens. That's an idea I'd love to see explored in future films.

  5. #230

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    Because WWII is such a fixed place in time, it ages Magneto essentially meaning he cannot exist as a potent force in modern times without changes to his power set. The problem is that mags is powerful enough as is, making him immortal or ageless is excessive, also we already have cap who clearly fixes the date of the war. The easy fix is to borrow from cap and say mags was frozen by the Nazis for an unspecified period, seeing his abilities they wished to study him... but it will be interesting to see what path marvel choose.

  6. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psy-lock View Post
    Just have the X-Men in their own universe and do some crossovers with the Avengers universe from time to time. Problem solved.
    X-Men works so much better as it's own universe.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    him being a Rwandan or Serbian isn't a better story. that's why the change shouldn't be made. it's not rocket science.
    That could depend on how well that story is told. I can't rule out that they could take the same heartbeats of his origin and fix it towards different tragedies.

  8. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    That could depend on how well that story is told. I can't rule out that they could take the same heartbeats of his origin and fix it towards different tragedies.
    it all comes down to the strength of the story. until a genocide comes along that "unseats" the Holocaust, it won't matter how well you tell the story. you change his story, you are downgrading him. why fight reality so hard?
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  9. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by WeirdSpider View Post
    X-Men works so much better as it's own universe.
    Yes....even in the comic they would work better not in same earth as FF and avengers
    In the real world i would be BOTH pro registration and Pro mutant rights. Xavier and Trask were both right.

  10. #235
    Fantastic Member Shreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartofTheStoriesWeTell View Post
    Yes....even in the comic they would work better not in same earth as FF and avengers
    If the X-Men had their own universe it would suck!

  11. #236
    Spectacular Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    I don't know if this possible idea was brought up because I wasn't going to read all 16 pages, but what if you brought in the High Evolutionary to explain where all the older mutants are? H.E. could be an alien, or a human evolved through alien means. In the early 60's I would have him collect most of the more powerful mutants for study -- mutants like Megneto, Professor X, Selene, Destiny, Mystique, Banshee, Mastermind, Toad, Wolverine, etc. And then he would put them in some sort of hibernation in the Wundagore Mountain, maybe because he guessed mutants would be the dominate species far too quickly, which in turn would lead to a war with humans that would eventually destroy the world or whatever.

    And what if the H.E. could have suppressed the X-Gene in the world's populace to stop or delay the mutant domination? That could explain why no mutants have been seen during modern times. Somehow during or after the Snap they were released. The older mutants dispersed into the world again with new and differing purposes. Once they were content with hiding, not knowing there was so many of them. Now they knew the truth and a change will come. Megneto declares war on humankind. Professor X vows to find the emerging mutants to train, so they can co-exist.

    The reason they were released could be Mr. Sinister, who in turn releases the suppression on the X-Gene and that how the story began. Mr. Sinister could have been H.E. assistant who later kills him, because he wanted more mutants out in the world to experiment on.
    So BAM!! Mr Sinister is the main villain instead of Megneto or the human ran government, until much later in the franchise.


    Magento can still have his WWII past, he could still have a friendship with Xavier, who in turn served in the Korean War. They both could be there during the formation of the Israeli statehood. Megneto could even be the grandfather of Wanda and Pietro. Lorna could be his daughter who was also captured by H.E.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    it all comes down to the strength of the story. until a genocide comes along that "unseats" the Holocaust, it won't matter how well you tell the story. you change his story, you are downgrading him. why fight reality so hard?
    I disagree that a story about a survivor of genocide can only be as good as however you rank the genocide historically. I find that a bizarre notion really.

  13. #238
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    I disagree that a story about a survivor of genocide can only be as good as however you rank the genocide historically. I find that a bizarre notion really.
    That people are STILL considering one genocide interchangeable with another — not to mention the fact this conversation is still happening AT ALL — after 16 pages is even more bizarre.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

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  14. #239
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    I disagree that a story about a survivor of genocide can only be as good as however you rank the genocide historically. I find that a bizarre notion really.
    It’s not necessarily that one genocide is “worse” than another (although some people happily rank them like that, and rightly shame on them for doing so), it’s that one genocide is different than another.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  15. #240
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    That people are STILL considering one genocide interchangeable with another — not to mention the fact this conversation is still happening AT ALL — after 16 pages is even more bizarre.
    We are going have to tackle what that means because people are saying it and I wonder where to go it. If you are putting character in setting today for example JSA what do you a lot characters stuff is built around World War II. Wars are not interchangeable but they have similarities. So tell a familiar story you would use a present war adjusting a fictional story out of necessity. Holocaust is very a specific thing but it is a genocide by definition for a event to be call that they have something things in common. So they are literally not the same thing but they are the same horrible thing.

    Now there is a level of distaste in this topic when you sit back and think about is kinda of mess up. I have said things in hindsight which by accident trivialize a real horrible thing to talk about fictional character origin and why changing it could be good. But as a reminder this what is being talk about Holocaust 6 million Jews killed about one fifth of Jewish population worldwide, in total 11 million people were killed in these numbers were Soviet citizens and POW, Slavs,Roma, Gay Men, Jehovah's Witnesses and Black people. Rwanda Genocide between 500,000–1,000,000 people were killed. Cambodian Killing Fields about 1.7 million people killed,etc. I can never find right words and I almost always end going into silly back forth people when I know the topic is serious thing.My concern angle has always been this

    Darfur genocide Darfur, Sudan 2003 Present 98,00 to 500,000
    Rohingya genocide Myanmar 2017 Present 9,000 to 43,000
    Genocide of Yazidis by ISIL Northern Iraq and Syria 2014 Present 2,100 to 4,400

    For me this always been convergence of if Magneto normal history can't be told then you have a opportunity to shine a light another tragedy with understanding of that part of the world still has ethnic cleansing. For me it is using of Marvel biggest villains as a tool to gain attention for a real life tragedies that are still ongoing. Sometimes I have gone about that badly expressing that opinion with my words. I believe if the story was done right it would be bring attention and actually help people today. For me that outweighs the usual hey you shouldn't change character race, these two events aren't interchangeable, hey you are removing a minority who also has strong history of mistreatment. I get why people disagree with changing the character but I think using Magneto would be the highest impact you could have something other or new character couldn't do. Maybe I am wrong maybe another character like a Black Panther in his movie would be better, maybe a protagonist who calls out fictional nation for not helping Africa written by someone good would have a bigger impact. Anyways for me it has been this can bring attention those areas in that list above.

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