Changing Magneto's origin for the movies?

[GrandEleven]

Telepathy won't easily explain away any recordings of events, or if anything get reported as news before a mindwipe, since that story is also likely to be preserved somehow.

... implying they don't already have an "easy button" in the form of the Winter Soldier plot. "Hydra infected the highest levels of government and had a machine crawling all variables about all people via social media data gathering. They discovered mutants and buried the info to be used later. When Rogers foiled their plans the information was lost, as it wasnt what he was immediately looking for (distracted in his quest for Bucky)."

Heck it writes itself as a Hydra fueled holocaust if you really wan to "modernize" it. Mutants were round up and enslaved/experimented on. It was done in some abandoned holocaust camps which made the perfect cover as they were already built for the purpose. OMG Wanda was mutant the whole time! The twins were experimented on with the cube _because_ they were experimenting on Mutants!

There, in 30seconds I gave two paths both which "fix" the time problems as well as any movie ever does and gives you the option to leave Magneto as a Nazi OR Hydra survivor. Take your pick.

[Gray Lensman]

... implying they don't already have an "easy button" in the form of the Winter Soldier plot. "Hydra infected the highest levels of government and had a machine crawling all variables about all people via social media data gathering. They discovered mutants and buried the info to be used later. When Rogers foiled their plans the information was lost, as it wasnt what he was immediately looking for (distracted in his quest for Bucky)."

Heck it writes itself as a Hydra fueled holocaust if you really wan to "modernize" it. Mutants were round up and enslaved/experimented on. It was done in some abandoned holocaust camps which made the perfect cover as they were already built for the purpose. OMG Wanda was mutant the whole time! The twins were experimented on with the cube _because_ they were experimenting on Mutants!

There, in 30seconds I gave two paths both which "fix" the time problems as well as any movie ever does and gives you the option to leave Magneto as a Nazi OR Hydra survivor. Take your pick.

Not really - Hydra is about as far as a stretch for a secret conspiracy as I can swallow, and they managed to hide so well largely by getting into SHIELD before it was even created - now you are trying to suggest they can manage to hide information from not just sources in other government agencies, but multiple agencies in other governments, plus civilian groups all over the globe? Why not try something less outlandish, and suggest they acquired the Infinity Stones and erased all the data with a snap but forgot to conquer the world?

[Gray Lensman]

We are going have to tackle what that means because people are saying it and I wonder where to go it. If you are putting character in setting today for example JSA what do you a lot characters stuff is built around World War II. Wars are not interchangeable but they have similarities. So tell a familiar story you would use a present war adjusting a fictional story out of necessity. Holocaust is very a specific thing but it is a genocide by definition for a event to be call that they have something things in common. So they are literally not the same thing but they are the same horrible thing.

Now there is a level of distaste in this topic when you sit back and think about is kinda of mess up. I have said things in hindsight which by accident trivialize a real horrible thing to talk about fictional character origin and why changing it could be good. But as a reminder this what is being talk about Holocaust 6 million Jews killed about one fifth of Jewish population worldwide, in total 11 million people were killed in these numbers were Soviet citizens and POW, Slavs,Roma, Gay Men, Jehovah's Witnesses and Black people. Rwanda Genocide between 500,000–1,000,000 people were killed. Cambodian Killing Fields about 1.7 million people killed,etc. I can never find right words and I almost always end going into silly back forth people when I know the topic is serious thing.My concern angle has always been this

Darfur genocide Darfur, Sudan 2003 Present 98,00 to 500,000
Rohingya genocide Myanmar 2017 Present 9,000 to 43,000
Genocide of Yazidis by ISIL Northern Iraq and Syria 2014 Present 2,100 to 4,400

For me this always been convergence of if Magneto normal history can't be told then you have a opportunity to shine a light another tragedy with understanding of that part of the world still has ethnic cleansing. For me it is using of Marvel biggest villains as a tool to gain attention for a real life tragedies that are still ongoing. Sometimes I have gone about that badly expressing that opinion with my words. I believe if the story was done right it would be bring attention and actually help people today. For me that outweighs the usual hey you shouldn't change character race, these two events aren't interchangeable, hey you are removing a minority who also has strong history of mistreatment. I get why people disagree with changing the character but I think using Magneto would be the highest impact you could have something other or new character couldn't do. Maybe I am wrong maybe another character like a Black Panther in his movie would be better, maybe a protagonist who calls out fictional nation for not helping Africa written by someone good would have a bigger impact. Anyways for me it has been this can bring attention those areas in that list above.

Interesting take.

Myself, I keep asking (and not getting any answer) what has Magento done to let the audience know he is Jewish in a way that is not connected to the Holocaust? For example, Kitty Pryde managed to burn Dracula with a Star of David pendant - because what was needed wasn't a cross, but faith in the symbol (the cross did squat for Logan, but when Kurt used it....well, that had a different effect), plus I remember seeing her light a Menorah in the Christmas episode of Evolution. But I can't think of a single thing Magneto has done that even suggests he is remotely familiar with anything Jewish except for the Holocaust. And if I can't tie him to the victims of that event outside of him having also been in it, then I can't understand why that specific event is sacrosanct.

[Killerbee911]

Interesting take.

Myself, I keep asking (and not getting any answer) what has Magento done to let the audience know he is Jewish in a way that is not connected to the Holocaust? For example, Kitty Pryde managed to burn Dracula with a Star of David pendant - because what was needed wasn't a cross, but faith in the symbol (the cross did squat for Logan, but when Kurt used it....well, that had a different effect), plus I remember seeing her light a Menorah in the Christmas episode of Evolution. But I can't think of a single thing Magneto has done that even suggests he is remotely familiar with anything Jewish except for the Holocaust. And if I can't tie him to the victims of that event outside of him having also been in it, then I can't understand why that specific event is sacrosanct.

They have been other stuff, But Magneto core motivations are built off his origins. So I get why his fans don't want him changed from since holocaust origin was add it strongly became a part of him. His distrust of man is based of the Holocaust. He literally has the tatoo serial number on him. Which is why oddly at least for me his race kinda takes a backseat because the tragedy has defined him more than race even though his race is who it happened too. Magneto isn't Magneto to me without the tragic event he came out and mold his thinking. Magneto has righteous rage which let you overlook some bad things he has done because ultimately it is prevent what happen to him before from happening again. Until he cross a line Magneto is a sympathetic antagonist just protecting his people against mankind who as we know have a tendency for evil and hatred.

I get it ,I joined the military after 9/11 it is was not the sole reason I joined but an tragic event like that shapes your thinking and movitations. I worked with many people that event for awhile shape most of their motivations. Once it was added for Magneto everything he does make sense in context to that event. Where I disagree other is I believe another tragedy would fuel the character the same way. They think that specific tragedy one that was focus on the large Jewish population is what fuels him and his part of his dna. Which is they don't want to see it gone from him. I think that can be created with another background with bonus of it drawing attention to ongoing thing. For me it would be on table as option of course not the first and it would take the right actor and script to go in direction. What will like happen is Magneto will have a background similar to his comics one in some way. That said maybe this time a Jewish actor gets the part.

[Michael Watkins]

Interesting take.

Myself, I keep asking (and not getting any answer) what has Magento done to let the audience know he is Jewish in a way that is not connected to the Holocaust? For example, Kitty Pryde managed to burn Dracula with a Star of David pendant - because what was needed wasn't a cross, but faith in the symbol (the cross did squat for Logan, but when Kurt used it....well, that had a different effect), plus I remember seeing her light a Menorah in the Christmas episode of Evolution. But I can't think of a single thing Magneto has done that even suggests he is remotely familiar with anything Jewish except for the Holocaust. And if I can't tie him to the victims of that event outside of him having also been in it, then I can't understand why that specific event is sacrosanct.

are you talking about the comics or other media? because he all but renounced the religious aspects of judaism after the experience. but he has attempted to form a homeland for mutants; their version of Israel. what are you looking for exactly?

[Michael Watkins]

Not really - Hydra is about as far as a stretch for a secret conspiracy as I can swallow, and they managed to hide so well largely by getting into SHIELD before it was even created - now you are trying to suggest they can manage to hide information from not just sources in other government agencies, but multiple agencies in other governments, plus civilian groups all over the globe? Why not try something less outlandish, and suggest they acquired the Infinity Stones and erased all the data with a snap but forgot to conquer the world?

Endgame gave everyone the perfect starting point. the next marvel movie could just have someone mention mutants as if they have always been there. and no one could argue with that because reality was fixed to resurrect the people that Thanos snapped away. something like that should have unexpected consequences; provide an 'x-factor' if you will.

[RachelGrey]

Magneto and Kitty Pryde are both Jewish and it's the one thing that has occasionally brought them together.

[Vegeta]

Magneto reflected on the meaning of Hanukkah in last year's "The Merry X-Men Holiday Special." While looking at a menorah he’s reminded of the meaning of Hanukkah, “Perhaps now… especially now… it is important to remember the miracles of the past.”

[Theleviathan]

It’s not necessarily that one genocide is “worse” than another (although some people happily rank them like that, and rightly shame on them for doing so), it’s that one genocide is different than another.

I agree, but aren't there some similarities too? I just can't rule out that Magneto could have another atrocity as his origin, even though I admit that the holocaust is a particularly distinct atrocity. I also don't disagree that for Magneto canon it's extremely important.

I'm just less attached to canon in movies than most maybe.

[Star_Jammer]

I agree, but aren't there some similarities too? I just can't rule out that Magneto could have another atrocity as his origin, even though I admit that the holocaust is a particularly distinct atrocity. I also don't disagree that for Magneto canon it's extremely important.

I'm just less attached to canon in movies than most maybe.

I’d encourage you to look up the base motivations behind some of the more well know genocides. You’ll likely note that the Holocaust stands apart (again, not “ranked” but “different”) in this regard, in a way that just...gels with the X-Men mythos.

This has already been noted upthread, as well.

[Theleviathan]

I’d encourage you to look up the base motivations behind some of the more well know genocides. You’ll likely note that the Holocaust stands apart (again, not “ranked” but “different”) in this regard, in a way that just...gels with the X-Men mythos.

This has already been noted upthread, as well.

Yes, I agree, but would you say that a good story can't be told, in the X-men mythos, with some other atrocity? I'm just not ruling it out, is all.

I'd prefer Magneto keeps his Jewish heritage and a connection to it, I just recognize there are some significant challenges to doing so.

[CRaymond]

I'd prefer Magneto keeps his Jewish heritage and a connection to it, I just recognize there are some significant challenges to doing so.

I think HomoSuperior’s Eastern European Bloc scenario would serve well. The trauma and lessons learned from the Holocaust persist, and could get us a 45-50 year old Magneto. In fifty years, the generations following us will have to solve for x, but that’s a can I can kick down the road.

[GrandEleven]

Not really - Hydra is about as far as a stretch for a secret conspiracy as I can swallow, and they managed to hide so well largely by getting into SHIELD before it was even created - now you are trying to suggest they can manage to hide information from not just sources in other government agencies, but multiple agencies in other governments, plus civilian groups all over the globe? Why not try something less outlandish, and suggest they acquired the Infinity Stones and erased all the data with a snap but forgot to conquer the world?

yes, extending the infiltration from one agency to many is clearly cosmic levels of outlandish. Strawman much?

Seriously, they did less work explaining the blip effects in Far From Home, lets not pretend the explanation needs to be air tight.

[chamber-music]

Magneto should keep his Jewish heritage. If they want to update the characters timeline then they could make him the son or grandson of Holocaust victims I suppose. He would lose the first hand account of the holocaust but still know the effects of it by having many of his relatives killed like many other Jewish people. Plus its not like anti-semitism has gone away. Pittsburgh synagogue shooting and Poway synagogue shooting have taken place in the last 12 months alone.

Marvel could make Magneto's family(Magda and his kid) the victim of anti-semitic attack by a neo-nazis but I think that might be in poor taste.

[Star_Jammer]

Yes, I agree, but would you say that a good story can't be told, in the X-men mythos, with some other atrocity? I'm just not ruling it out, is all.

I'd prefer Magneto keeps his Jewish heritage and a connection to it, I just recognize there are some significant challenges to doing so.

“Some other atrocity” sums up my (mine?) and others point.

They are not interchangeable.