Changing Magneto's origin for the movies?

[CRaymond]

Being a survivor of genocide.

What you're really asking is how being Jewish is essential to the character. Essential in a way that being Cambodian or Rwandan wouldn't equate.

I'm interested in their answers as well.

Somewhat. Not all Jewish experiences are universal. Lucy mentioned the political betrayal from Magneto’s father following WWI which was important. European culture is different then than now.

Ultimate Magneto wasn’t a Holocaust survivor. I’m wondering what that portrayal lacked aside from the timestamp and trauma.

[Ambaryerno]

Nice snarkpost. But, not a rebuttal.

What is there to make a rebuttal against? That was such a blatant case of apples and rutabagas that it defies conventional simile.

[FUBAR007]

What is there to make a rebuttal against? That was such a blatant case of apples and rutabagas that it defies conventional simile.

You've graduated to assertion. Congrats. Still not a rebuttal, though.

[Rivka]

It is something some of us have suggested. The living survivors of the Holocaust are in their 90s now. You can always give Magneto some long-surviving aspect to his powers. But that creates know a need to fill in the time for a character over time that will turn into something convoluted.

There is no time gap to fill. It's already filled. He lived with Magda for a number of years until his powers manifested. He searched for her for a while. He went to Israel and worked as a Mossad agent for a number of years. He met Xavier, realized he was a mutant. He then worked for a long time as an independent agent, working sometimes for Interpol, sometimes alone, ostensibly hunting mutants-gone-bad but really gathering intel on the growing use of mutants in biological research and weapons programs around the world. At some point, he decided to become "Magneto " in the costume and helmet, but for a long time he built Asteroid M 1, made his plans, became more and more unhinged as he kept using his powers to the max without the proper training. Xavier kept trying to get him to come in from the cold, get therapy, get training with his powers, but Magneto refused. He gathered the mutants who became the first "Brotherhood" and then at some point around 12 years ago Marvel Time he attacked Cape Citadel. In other words, he tried several paths before he decided to go full-on mutie-terrorist; spent many years trying these different approaches. He didn't need different timelines, he had his own life to try the different approaches. This is canon, you just need to stretch out the number of years he spent on each path. Also, writers have added other paths that may or may not be in continuity.

So no, the "time passed" argument is just another excuse to erase his identity, in my opinion.

1. The first choice is to attach Magneto to similar small fictional event so it can slide along him. He already has stuff with Magda in Vinnytsia which can be flesh out into something bigger. Make Magneto parents the survivors of Holocaust

There's no need for that. And besides, it changes entirely the reason for making him a Holocaust survivor in the first place. The experiences of the children of survivors is completely different from that of the survivors themselves.

2. The second choice is to attach Magneto to a different modern-day tragic event that can slide along with him. Sadly they are still genocide events going on Africa so it is a great way to update a character for modern times and help point out a modern problem.

Nothing against the original form of Magneto, I think updated Africa version has to a chance to do some different things in certain areas. Someone got upset the last time I said it but as stand-ins for two American black civil right leaders, it would be interesting if one of them in updated version was Black. There is some strong symbolism and interesting storylines that comes from people just being afraid black men or hating just on skin color alone.

If you want an African version of Magneto, then create a new character who is like Magneto! Do not replace one minority with another. Like I said, I think this would be a great idea. Moreover, in the case of the Rwandan genocide, there was a group of teen boys who were kidnapped and programmed to become killers, and sometimes had to kill members of their own family, their friends, their neighbors. After the end of the conflict, these boys became lost souls; I imaged Magneto in those days--a survivor of the Auschwitz Sonderkommando--being uniquely qualified to offer these boys some kind of guidance, to try and help them. This would have been some 25 years ago and Max would have taken the name "Erik" and would have been working as a free-lance mutant-hunter-investigator, traveling the world. Or maybe at this point he was trying to find other mutants like himself!

Anyway, again, there is ZERO reason to remove Magneto's history and Jewish identity and every reason to keep it.

[U.N. Owen]

I can understand that trauma like powerlessness in the face of destruction, fearing the specter of the past, and survivor's guilt have been around since the dawn of civilization, but I cannot accept interchangeability of tragedies like the Holocaust and Rwanda. Both are horrible and can evoke the same emotions, but they are only comparable in that they are genocides. The buildup, the internal politics, and the methods used were really different.

[FUBAR007]

Rivka, based on what you've written here, I don't think you'll be satisfied with anything less than a beat-for-beat, verbatim adaptation of the character.

[Lucyinthesky]

Somewhat. Not all Jewish experiences are universal. Lucy mentioned the political betrayal from Magneto’s father following WWI which was important. European culture is different then than now.

Ultimate Magneto wasn’t a Holocaust survivor. I’m wondering what that portrayal lacked aside from the timestamp and trauma.

I see Ultimate Magneto as a different character who only shares with 616Magneto the name, appareance other than that he´s a different character with different motives. Yes, he was used as a rival for the X-men and Xavier but frankly what he did could have been done easily by apocalypse or Mr Sinister, he didn´t bring gravitas to the story or something that added to it beyond being someone for the heros to punch. It´s the exact same problem silver age Magneto had that Claremont decided to change by developing him into a third dimensional character, a character who has real emotions and motivations: depth, beneath the surface. As for his jewish identity:

[CRaymond]

I see Ultimate Magneto as a different character who only shares with 616Magneto the name, appareance other than that he´s a different character with different motives.

Then we arrive back at 616Fury vs MCUFury.

In what way was UltimateMagneto’s motivations different from 616Magneto’s?

[mugiwara]

Just make Magneto and Xavier's story happen in the 80s or in the 90s in a flashback.
And move on.

[PsychoEFrost]

Just make Magneto and Xavier's story happen in the 80s or in the 90s in a flashback.
And move on.

But that takes away Magneto's primary motivation. Magneto fundamentally doesn't work without the Holocaust back story.

[CRaymond]

Just make Magneto and Xavier's story happen in the 80s or in the 90s in a flashback.
And move on.

I honestly feel the X-Men would be best served if the MCU didn’t feature Magneto, Xavier, or Phoenix. Let’s see stories from chapter 2, like Limbo, slave state Genosha, Krakoa, OZT, Brood.

But that takes away Magneto's primary motivation. Magneto fundamentally doesn't work without the Holocaust back story.

There are some that disagree.

[mugiwara]

But that takes away Magneto's primary motivation. Magneto fundamentally doesn't work without the Holocaust back story.

No, I mean, make their feud in the 80s or the 90s. That way, they can still be born in the 30s. (edit: or rather the 20s?)
Then make them die or have something erase the mutants until the modern era, so the MCU mutants can move on without retelling the Fox movies

[Lucyinthesky]

Then we arrive back at 616Fury vs MCUFury.

In what way was UltimateMagneto’s motivations different from 616Magneto’s?

For me they are very different Ultimate Magneto was a canadian rich kid who had too much powers in his hands and believed this made him superior to the rest of humanity and maybe even mutants, he then discovered that "mutants" were a goverment experiment and that was too much for his self image, 616 Magneto believes he´s trying to stop another genocide similar to the Holocaust on the mutants, because he has seen how it happened to his own people when he was a boy, this gives Magneto not only a "I disagree with you Charles because we are great" argument it gives him a pov that says "I see it happening because I saw it before and can see the signs of it happening again"

I can understand that trauma like powerlessness in the face of destruction, fearing the specter of the past, and survivor's guilt have been around since the dawn of civilization, but I cannot accept interchangeability of tragedies like the Holocaust and Rwanda. Both are horrible and can evoke the same emotions, but they are only comparable in that they are genocides. The buildup, the internal politics, and the methods used were really different.

I agree completely.

[Omega Alpha]

One of the big things for me with keeping him tied to WWII is having to explain him not really doing anything for over 80 years. If you say he has aged slowly then you still have to explain that he basically sat on his hands for decades doing nothing, and that does not sound like any version of Magneto.

Yeah. Put him on ice too- make Xavier find him out in a lab of Sinister.

[CRaymond]

For me they are very different Ultimate Magneto was a canadian rich kid who had too much powers in his hands and believed this made him superior to the rest of humanity and maybe even mutants, he then discovered that "mutants" were a goverment experiment and that was too much for his self image, 616 Magneto believes he´s trying to stop another genocide similar to the Holocaust on the mutants, because he has seen how it happened to his own people when he was a boy, this gives Magneto not only a "I disagree with you Charles because we are great" argument it gives him a pov that says "I see it happening because I saw it before and can see the signs of it happening again"



I agree completely.

(I never collected Ultimate X-Men; thank you for filling me in)