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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Rogal for Bendis is like Knull for Cates. They’re clearly in love with their OCs but someone needs to step in and take them away. Rogal is just not an interesting character at all and Bendis has completely failed to make him one. Do we still seriously not know what his deal is at the end of all this? If it weren’t for Kal spoilers:
    apparently founding the U.P. at the end of all this I would not hesitate to drop this book. Bendis needs to pull his head out of his ass and stop wasting our time.
    end of spoilers

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Rogal for Bendis is like Knull for Cates. They’re clearly in love with their OCs but someone needs to step in and take them away. Rogal is just not an interesting character at all and Bendis has completely failed to make him one. Do we still seriously not know what his deal is at the end of all this? If it weren’t for Kal spoilers:
    apparently founding the U.P. at the end of all this I would not hesitate to drop this book. Bendis needs to pull his head out of his ass and stop wasting our time.
    end of spoilers
    Agree, completely with this. Rogal needs revamp starting from design. This story is no fun at all. Clark and jon are basically running around the universe like headless chickens and we don't even get a proper pay off.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Agree, completely with this. Rogal needs revamp starting from design. This story is no fun at all. Clark and jon are basically running around the universe like headless chickens and we don't even get a proper pay off.
    Once Bendis leaves no one will ever use Rogal again. No one ever uses anyone else’s OCs unless they’re forced to and honestly I couldn’t care less if Rogal never showed up again. Bendis blew 10 issues on his trash OC and he still doesn’t even give us his origin.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Once Bendis leaves no one will ever use Rogal again. No one ever uses anyone else’s OCs unless they’re forced to and honestly I couldn’t care less if Rogal never showed up again. Bendis blew 10 issues on his trash OC and he still doesn’t even give us his origin.
    10 issues? Are we forgetting Man of Steel?
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  5. #50
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Once Bendis leaves no one will ever use Rogal again. No one ever uses anyone else’s OCs unless they’re forced to and honestly I couldn’t care less if Rogal never showed up again. Bendis blew 10 issues on his trash OC and he still doesn’t even give us his origin.
    Rogol is bound to eventually join H'el, Wraith and Ghost Soldier in the ranks of Superman villain OCs that no one besides the original writer will use.

  6. #51
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    I wonder how much of it is DC getting cold feet about having him be the new destroyer of Krypton.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvenger View Post
    Rogol is bound to eventually join H'el, Wraith and Ghost Soldier in the ranks of Superman villain OCs that no one besides the original writer will use.
    I actually like Pak’s OCs so I’m unhappy they were abandoned. I’m unhappy about Jurgens OCs Conduit and Blanque never getting used as opposed to the most boring Jurgens OC Henshaw getting pushed everywhere. Busiek’s villain Khyber was cool and he’s forgotten. And I actually really like Red Cloud and the Invisible Mafia so it’s not that I hate Bendis OCs completely. But Rogal is so generic and boring and Bendis has not done anything meaningful with him at this point despite making him the main villain of his Superman book. We still don’t know his origin but most people don’t even care at this point. I don’t care about Rogal and I still mostly enjoy Bendis’ run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    I wonder how much of it is DC getting cold feet about having him be the new destroyer of Krypton.
    Was it DC getting cold feet? Or just Bendis doing his usual schtick of teasing something to draw you in and then ending it in a very weak way? Ugh either way it is such a waste of everyone’s time. His Superman book feels like his X-Men book to me: Good parts and some good ideas ruined by decompression and Bendis’ inability to get to the point. I don’t get why he has such a problem with this while over in Action things move at a decent pace but he does.

    Least we’re getting the LoSH back and Supes is finally founding the United Planets. I’m just going to hope the President of Earth arc is Rogal free because it’s actually an interesting status quo to me. I like Supes getting involved like that.

  8. #53
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Was it DC getting cold feet? Or just Bendis doing his usual schtick of teasing something to draw you in and then ending it in a very weak way? Ugh either way it is such a waste of everyone’s time. His Superman book feels like his X-Men book to me: Good parts and some good ideas ruined by decompression and Bendis’ inability to get to the point. I don’t get why he has such a problem with this while over in Action things move at a decent pace but he does.

    Least we’re getting the LoSH back and Supes is finally founding the United Planets. I’m just going to hope the President of Earth arc is Rogal free because it’s actually an interesting status quo to me. I like Supes getting involved like that.
    That was pure speculation on my part. The only reason I think it is because when Bendis first came over that was a part of his pitch to Didio that he talked about a lot. The meat of the story seems to have been dumped into Supergirl. And so far it doesn't seem to be being resolved at all. I mean Supergirl found out that Zor-El built (or designed) the device Zaar was going to use to destroy Earth and that has kinda gone nowhere. Just major plot points dumped into a side book and forgotten. And it doesn't seem like these are going to be addressed for a while a minimum. What with Superman moving onto the LoSH and what looks like a few fill in issues with YOTV stuff. And Supergirl whoel direction being subsumed by the Batman Who Laughs stuff.

    Honestly, none of Bendis' arcs have had any real resolution. His first action six issues of Action were all set up with the main parts all "to be continued" Leviathan Rising was all setup for Event Leviathan. Nothing has really been resolved.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    That was pure speculation on my part. The only reason I think it is because when Bendis first came over that was a part of his pitch to Didio that he talked about a lot. The meat of the story seems to have been dumped into Supergirl. And so far it doesn't seem to be being resolved at all. I mean Supergirl found out that Zor-El built (or designed) the device Zaar was going to use to destroy Earth and that has kinda gone nowhere. Just major plot points dumped into a side book and forgotten. And it doesn't seem like these are going to be addressed for a while a minimum. What with Superman moving onto the LoSH and what looks like a few fill in issues with YOTV stuff. And Supergirl whoel direction being subsumed by the Batman Who Laughs stuff.

    Honestly, none of Bendis' arcs have had any real resolution. His first action six issues of Action were all set up with the main parts all "to be continued" Leviathan Rising was all setup for Event Leviathan. Nothing has really been resolved.
    The Invisible Mafia seems to be setting up the Invisible War so it does look like that will finally see Supes discovering the Mafia exists under his nose while a gang war breaks out in Metropolis. So MOS was the first act, Invisible Mafia was the second act buildup and now we’ll get the Third Act finale where the confrontation between Superman and the Mafia takes place. But if we’re to believe the spoilers, Rogal doesn’t lead to the UP getting formed in any meaningful way which just leads me to ask wtf was the point of spending so many issues on this guy?

  10. #55
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    It's just so unfortunate. Having read The Great Darkness Saga, and now seeing its influence in so many creators who came up reading around that time (Bendis and Hickman at the top of the list), you know his intention was to build to that similar feeling of "holy crap," and seed the same subtle clues that were woven throughout that story (in at least this regard, I think it worked). And its both an admirable endeavor, and more than possible a goal considering what the big show stopping reveal 100% is going to be (we're all in agreement it's going to be the thing, right), but the pace for it was off.

    I fully understand that he didn't want Zaar to be a one-and-done flavor of the week (especially with what he was planing), and he didn't want the crux of what makes him interesting to be totally on his origin. That's why he established Zaar beyond his origin by giving him the ability to inspire people to his side similar to Clark. That's new for a villain. Hell, that's interesting for a Superman villain, but it's overshadowed by his mystery.

    If this was going to be primarily a mystery, then our heroes should've played a more active role in solving it. Zod being in Zaar's ranks should've made him an informant for Clark. Clark should've essentially been space Lois. If he wanted Zaar as a foe in his own right, then he should've ripped the band-aid on his identity earlier (like between the last two issue before now). There's a lot there to play with, and it has a direct ripple effect on at least 3 of our characters.

    The creation of Zaar had very good intentions, creatively, behind it, but mistakes were made. We're obviously not done with Zaar even after his origin is revealed, so I'm hoping that from here on he'll live up to his function: to drive story and parallel between Clark/Jor-El and Clark/Jon. At this juncture, he's a plot device that has a long way to go before he's a character, let alone a Superman villain in his own right. He's got so much narrative weight on him that I can't help but hope the leg work is done to allow him to live up to at least half of it.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 08-15-2019 at 02:05 PM.
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  11. #56
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    It's just so unfortunate. Having read The Great Darkness Saga, and now seeing its influence in so many creators who came up reading around that time (Bendis and Hickman at the top of the list), you know his intention was to build to that similar feeling of "holy crap," and seed the same subtle clues that were woven throughout that story (in at least this regard, I think it worked). And its both an admirable endeavor, and more than possible a goal considering what the big show stopping reveal 100% is going to be (we're all in agreement it's going to be the thing, right), but the pace for it was off.

    I fully understand that he didn't want Zaar to be a one-and-done flavor of the week (especially with what he was planing), and he didn't want the crux of what makes him interesting to be totally on his origin. That's why he established Zaar beyond his origin by giving him the ability to inspire people to his side similar to Clark. That's new for a villain. Hell, that's interesting for a Superman villain, but it's overshadowed by his mystery.

    If this was going to be primarily a mystery, then our heroes should've played a more active role in solving it. Zod being in Zaar's ranks should've made him an informant for Clark. Clark should've essentially been space Lois. If he wanted Zaar as a foe in his own right, then he should've ripped the band-aid on his identity earlier (like between the last two issue before now). There's a lot there to play with, and it has a direct ripple effect on at least 3 of our characters.

    The creation of Zaar had very good intentions, creatively, behind it, but mistakes were made. We're obviously not done with Zaar even after his origin is revealed, so I'm hoping that from here on he'll live up to his function: to drive story and parallel between Clark/Jor-El and Clark/Jon. At this juncture, he's a plot device that has a long way to go before he's a character, let alone a Superman villain in his own right. He's got so much narrative weight on him that I can't help but hope the leg work is done to allow him to live up to at least half of it.
    If nothing else man I always appreciate how positive you are lol. It’s rather refreshing for an Internet forum.

  12. #57
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    If nothing else man I always appreciate how positive you are lol. It’s rather refreshing for an Internet forum.
    Hahaha I honestly that was me being largely negative or at least very critical of such a big part of the run. But thank you regardless!

    It's just really, really unfortunate, and I find myself more disappointed than angry at that aspect of the work. The mystery aspect not being played up as strongly as it could've and should've been is a genuine head scratcher for me. It's just odd since it's Bendis of all people not jumping on that idea. He's got all the fixins too: a relative Everyman character dealing with personal responsibility, work obligations, and a personal hangups and ticks that he has to deal with even unknowingly. Then he's a literal cold case murder with a passionate gunman who sports a dark and complicated past. There's a person of interest who is also heavily linked to our Everyman detective, and his personal feelings for them cloud his judgment and conflict with his critical eye. And of course you've got behind the scenes "this goes up way higher than you imaged" governing body who leaves our gunman as the fallguy. To top it off, this is the only book he's doing where his main character has internal and introspective narration.

    It's all set on the grandest scale possible, but it may as well be a Humphrey Bogart detective film. What's worse is that Bendis more or less thematically set it up when he literally has Clark think of the whole Zaar mystery along the lines of "what would Lois, the investigative reporter, do?" Plus, not only is Bendis a noir guy, but he's also literally writing a mystery event a great deal better than this mystery right now. This should've been superhero noir on a planetary then cosmic scale.

    I don't know if he didn't see where his proclivities were guiding him, or if he actively fought them and this mystery was the result, but whatever it was, that aspect of the book was lacking and he--specifically him more than most-- had all of the tools to make it maybe the best part of the whole book.

    Conceptually, this is actually something I'd like to see adapted to film as a Superman movie. Maybe there the structural pacing flaws can be fixed by a tight 2 hour runtime and budgetary constraints that force creativity in what can and needs to be shown? Call it Last Son of Krypton and, baby, you got a stew goin'.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 08-15-2019 at 04:13 PM.
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  13. #58
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    The new Supergirl cover is live.

    God, the level of detail on Zaar's gauntlets is outstanding.

    It also seems to hint if not outright confirm our spoiler regarding Zaar in this thread.

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  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    One step closer to your theory turning out true.

    At the very least he's got some Kryptonian blood.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  15. #60
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    I genuinely hope it turns out to be true. And it's more than just the general catharsis of seeing what one hoped were the clues of a mystery being bread-crumbed throughout the run finally coalescing into the projected result; I genuinely think that anything short of that reveal--at this point--will be to the detriment of not just Zaar as a concpet, but also the main idea of this arc: a Superman family affair.

    That said, I don't envy Bendis now tasking himself with legitimately writing spoilers:
    "Superman's likely illegitimate self hating half-brother who also blew up Krypton."
    end of spoilers
    #MakeAlexGreatAgain

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