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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I loved Perez's depiction of the Amazons as having multiple ethnicities, but it was never really shown how those varied ethnicities impacted the characters. One could argue that it didn't, in that Paradise is an equal and equitable environment, but we still have to contend with Themysciran architecture and fashion being overwhelmingly Hellenistic in its design.

    That's why I've always preferred (and would reintroduce) an advanced Amazon society. Just like many real-world cities, older or ancient architectural designs would stand next to and be dispersed amongst new design aesthetics and achievements. Inspiration and fashion design could come from a variety of cultures and incorporate past designs in contemporary ways - just like style does in the real world.

    Regardless, given Diana, Hippolyta, Steve, Donna, Artemis, Cassie, Warkiller, etc., we need more individual Amazons of Color (AOC) to rise up as major and minor supporting characters. I'd increase the profiles of Nu'Bia and Philippus immediately and revisit Mala and Orana as potential recipients of an ethnicity change as well as mine all the AOC Perez and Jimenez introduced in their runs. There are so many aspects of Themyscira that we haven't touched on in quite a while that these Amazons could be in charge of, let alone new aspects of the Amazons that may need to develop based on their reconnection with Man's World at some point.

    All of these women could add amazing richness and detail to the Amazons' way of life and help promote the Amazons more fully into the broader DCU.

  2. #17

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    I was a fan of Sirrica from Azzarello's run and was hoping she'd come in and be WonderGirl.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Marston probably just picked Greek names because they sounded "foreign".
    In the Greek legends, all Amazons have Greek names (if their names are given at all). So, either the Greeks made up all those stories about Amazons, or they translated the meaning of the foreign names from the language of the Amazons into Greek, so that the readers could understand. Many names of Amazons are connected to horses (hippos) - any names starting with Hipp-, or ending in -ippe are connected to horses. Marston simply used some of the names from the classics, and invented some others like Mala.

  4. #19
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    Looking back on it, I wish the WW movie hadn't given Philippus' role as combat instructor to Antiope.

  5. #20
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Two of the Amazons, Mala and Oranna, have names of Indian and Wiradjuri origin respectively so they clearly weren't all meant to be of Greek origin. Marston probably just picked Greek names because they sounded "foreign".
    Are there any other named Amazons besides those two, Hippolyta and Diana (which is a Roman name)? I'm pretty sure the Hellenizing of Wonder Woman's mythos comes from Perez. I've said before that the whole backstory involving Steve Trevor's mother was an explanation as to why WW has a non-Greek name.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Are there any other named Amazons besides those two, Hippolyta and Diana (which is a Roman name)? I'm pretty sure the Hellenizing of Wonder Woman's mythos comes from Perez. I've said before that the whole backstory involving Steve Trevor's mother was an explanation as to why WW has a non-Greek name.
    Wikipedia has a list of Amazons who appeared pre crisis and quite a number of them have Greek names. Perez it should be noted also created the Bana whose names are of Arab origin (except for Artemis who wasn't created by him) and included or at least refernced other pantheons other than the Greek ones. Notably, a pre-Crisis WW story had Diana fight the reanimated corpse of a deceased Amazon named Artemis.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-16-2019 at 12:03 AM.

  7. #22
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Wikipedia has a list of Amazons who appeared pre crisis and quite a number of them have Greek names. Perez it should be noted also created the Bana whose names are of Arab origin (except for Artemis who wasn't created by him) and included or at least refernced other pantheons other than the Greek ones. Notably, a pre-Crisis WW story had Diana fight the reanimated corpse of a deceased Amazon named Artemis.
    There are a bunch of Bronze Age stories that do feature Greek named Amazons (Antiope, Artemis) and there are just a broader assortment of stories featuring the Greek pantheon (which wasn't really a thing in the silver or golden ages). Though characters like Mala were still kicking around. So I would amend my statement that, even though the Hellenization of Wonder Woman's mythos was already taking place by the time Perez got to her, and he finished the process (I'm fairly certain the name Themyscara came with Perez too, as before it was just called Amazon Island).

    For most of the Golden and Silver Age though the Amazons didn't have have a strict naming tradition, though just to clarify I wouldn't say that means the Amazons were diverse. Mala may be an Indian name, but that doesn't mean she was Indian as the name is simple enough it could have been an independent creation or he could have been ignorant to its origins. Marton's stories were very pulpy and names didn't necessarily match our modern notions of coherency. For instance the warlord Mars had under his command three 'dukes' and a knight named 'Mephistopheles.'
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

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  8. #23
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    This was posted in the WW 1984 thread.



    Don't know how they'll integrate the Bana into the movies given that Antiope never had a falling out with Hippolyta and even died before she could.

    If it is the Bana, I hope they are handled well.

    I do recall there was a twitter thread about how well Chief from the first movie was handled and it seemed to be considered good. Sadly I can't find it.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-19-2019 at 06:31 AM.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    A lot of the names used are a bit culturally ambiguous. Mala, for example, could come from one of several regions.

  10. #25
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    To the extent that Wonder Woman and the Amazons are a continuation of Classical Greek culture, American and Western European ideas about race were foreign to them. Those who spoke your language were part of your ethnos; this included Egyptians, Libyans, and Syrians to the extent they were Hellenized. For Western Europeans, a sharp line between White and Black people could be drawn because their experience was of white people from Northwestern Europe, and very dark people in West Africa, separated by hundreds of miles of inhospitable desert and hostile Muslims. For ancient Greeks in the Hellenistic world, moving freely up and down the Nile and east as far as current Pakistan, it was much more obvious that skin color was a sliding scale.

    The traditional location of Paradise Island does make it likely that it was exposed, probably by chance, to the Atlantic slave trade. How they would have handled this discovery is interesting.
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  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Having Greek influence wouldn't be out of the question, considering that even before Alexander the Great's conquests, the Greeks had sailed, settled, and spread their culture throughout the Mediterranean and even Black Sea. Alexander simply cemented much of it (mainly through his generals that took over the regions of his empire). And especially places like Egypt, a long time melting pot even before the Greeks came, its not so strange for their to be light-skinned Banas, as well as darker skinned ones.

    What's more, in the Illiad and in the 12 labors of Heracles, both well known Greek tales, Amazons are noted as being part and privy. The 12 labors, obviously (which has been used in the Amazons' lore), but the Illiad also noted a number of Amazons on the side of the Trojans during the Trojan War (which took place at least a generation after Heracles, as one of his sons fought Hector in it).

  12. #27
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Etta and Maggie are black. I Ching is Asian. Doc Julia is Mediterranean. Hermes is blue, now...I think? I see no reason that Mala shouldn't stay blond AND a white woman, and be added to the regular (every/every other issue) cast.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    Etta and Maggie are black. I Ching is Asian. Doc Julia is Mediterranean. Hermes is blue, now...I think? I see no reason that Mala shouldn't stay blond AND a white woman, and be added to the regular (every/every other issue) cast.
    Julia and I Ching aren't around anymore (and Julia is still a white wonan). Hermes being blue does not count as racial diversity. Even then the idea that Mala shouldn't be Indian just because there are other poc characters around doesn't make sense.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Apart from what Agent Z said, I think there is a strong case for specifically the Amazons to be a diverse bunch. The movie really should be a baseline for the Amazon diversity, even if it didn't give the non-white Amazons that much of speaking roles.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  15. #30
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Julia and I Ching aren't around anymore (and Julia is still a white wonan). Hermes being blue does not count as racial diversity. Even then the idea that Mala shouldn't be Indian just because there are other poc characters around doesn't make sense.
    The idea that Mala shouldn't be Indian...? Why must Mala be or look like an Indian or anyone, but, who she already is? Wonder Woman is often depicted, as bronze or olive-skinned and Mediterranean-looking; in context, she makes the once all-white Amazons visually, if not racially, ..diverse. What harm is caused by her most trusted friend, since the Golden Age, being blond and white? Mala is fine, as she is.

    Amazons are Amazons...not Sudanese (Nubians), Indians or white Macedonians. They can and should look like everybody.

    I can understand how introducing new, non-white-looking characters and giving them important things to do in the comic can racially diversify how stories are presented. If Mala faded into the BG, as Nigerian-looking Oya is shown acting in her stead, somehow, ..where's the harm? I think that can be inclusive, adding to what is already there, ..and, at least, Mala can come back. Expunging the WW comic or the Amazons of white-looking characters, like Mala, ..isn't real diversity.

    I think that, if any long-standing WW fan wants to drop the comic, because the leading lady's friend is a white woman, ..we've got some very serious problems.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-26-2019 at 01:15 AM.
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