Race And Ethnicity In The Wonder Woman Franchise

[Robanker]

That... might be a little too creepy.

I mean you could have them both there molding Nubia from clay like Polly did Diana. It's not like she has to walk up to Philippus and say "surprise, here's a daughter."

I just want the clay origin back, alright? I really don't care for the Zues being her father bit.

[Agent Z]

I mean you could have them both there molding Nubia from clay like Polly did Diana. It's not like she has to walk up to Philippus and say "surprise, here's a daughter."

I just want the clay origin back, alright? I really don't care for the Zues being her father bit.

Same here.

[Konja7]

I mean you could have them both there molding Nubia from clay like Polly did Diana. It's not like she has to walk up to Philippus and say "surprise, here's a daughter."

I just want the clay origin back, alright? I really don't care for the Zues being her father bit.

Unfotunately, I don't think the clay origin will return.

Zeus being Diana's father seems to be a enough popular origin. Not in this forum, but people usually just accept this in other places.

[Robanker]

Unfotunately, I don't think the clay origin will return.

Zeus being Diana's father seems to be a enough popular origin. Not in this forum, but people usually just accept this in other places.

I mean she should have more lightning powers then, but didn't they give that to Shazam so he'd be a little more different to Superman and Wonder Woman? That poor guy can't get a break.

[LordUltimus]

Unfotunately, I don't think the clay origin will return.

Zeus being Diana's father seems to be a enough popular origin. Not in this forum, but people usually just accept this in other places.

Is it? People don't seem all that aware of either origin, to be honest.

[Konja7]

Is it? People don't seem all that aware of either origin, to be honest.

That's why I say people just accept that origin.

I don't think people love that Zeus dad origin, but they just accept it. And a good amount of fans like to say Diana is a goddess.

In itself, the fact that the clay origin (that existed for more than 40 years) is just ignored for most fans make it pretty difficult that the origin will return.

[LordUltimus]

That's why I say people just accept that origin.

I don't think people love that Zeus dad origin, but they just accept it. And a good amount of fans like to say Diana is a goddess.

In itself, the fact that the clay origin (that existed for more than 40 years) is just ignored for most fans make it pretty difficult that the origin will return.

Well, by that logic, they'll ignore the origin that's only been around for eight years that much quicker if it's dropped.

[Steel Inquisitor]

It's sad to say the Wonder Woman sequel appears to have stumbled in regards to race. A shame given its predecessor did much better.

https://english.alaraby.co.uk/englis...ti-arab-racism

Not really, it's a straw man. I don't know how people get this from, and I've seen the movie. How do you spoilers?

[Agent Z]

Not really, it's a straw man. I don't know how people get this from, and I've seen the movie. How do you spoilers?

And the guy making this criticism about the movie in the link I posted is Arab himself.

[Agent Z]

Well, by that logic, they'll ignore the origin that's only been around for eight years that much quicker if it's dropped.

With how much DC likes to go back to the past, I imagine the clay origin will return some day. Maybe not soon but probably in the future.

[Gaius]

With how much DC likes to go back to the past, I imagine the clay origin will return some day. Maybe not soon but probably in the future.

I think DeConnick has hinted on her Twitter she'll probably go for the clay origin in Historia when the story gets to Diana's conception so there's that possibility at least.

[Agent Z]

I understand Donna Troy and Cassie Sandsmark were racebent into being Japanese in Bombshells. How was that handled?

[Steel Inquisitor]

And the guy making this criticism about the movie in the link I posted is Arab himself.

Thank you.

WONDER WOMAN '84:
spoilers:

First off, it’s a polarizing movie - not a critical failure. That portion of the film is in the fictional Middle Eastern country, Bialya, not Egypt. For context, Max went there to take out an oil magnate rival via his wishes. The oil magnate, who is Middle Eastern, is tricked into making a wish - which he did not take seriously because Max Lord was pathetic conman to him (which is true) said he wanted to take his sacred lands back and push out rival countries which manifested as a wall. This is clearly wrong and the man instantly regrets doing it but is powerless when Max uses the wish to brainwash his security force and leaves the man to die as enemies close in. At no point is the man made to be look like he's evil for doing this, it's actually very sympathetic since he got in over his head with Max. In the finale we return to him as he returns his wish and the wall evaporates. He's not an Egyptian king, btw. I think he might be a prince, but its his oil that Max wants that defines more than his status. I’ve only seen the movie once on the second I’ll see if he did say heathens and if he did yeah that’s something they shouldn’t have said. Could have the movie have done more with Middle Eastern/Arab representation - yes. The movie badly needed more of a supporting cast and giving other characters more depth like the oil magnate. Does that wish define who the man is through the movie? No. It was his not taking Max as a threat, and that he regrets his decision. Everyone makes mistakes, that's a huge theme in the movie. It also makes the assumption that there aren't people in the Middle east who would have opinions like that and that's not exclusive to the Middle East - people from all over the world make monstrous decisions, one big example is a white couple in the UK who get into fights, the wife wishes for all the Irish to get out of their region the other wants the husband wants her to drop dead she does. They're far more monstrous than the oil magnate ever was, and even they regret their decisions when the wishes come true. That's the monkey paw. The missile scene: you've seen the fight in the trailers, Diana is fighting an army convey - who are the security detail Max brainwashed. Her powers are weakening and Diana sees there are kids ahead on the road and wants to prevent them being run over by the convey - she does this by having Steve fire a missile for her to lasso to pull her forward and she throws the missile away so nobody is in danger from the act. Could they have tied something less sensitive, sure but they're fighting an army convey and kids are going to be run over and in this movie Diana saves lots of kids. It's her thing. The kids get saved and a woman in a burka gives thanks, including the kids who are happy they weren't ran over. Since the accusation is so blatantly weaponised they sound like they'd prefer those kids to be run over rather than be saved by Wonder Woman. Comparing that scene to those Palestinian kids being killed by a missile is grotesque, it makes it sound like Diana herself did that in the movie which is false. I agree the movie needed more positive Middle eastern representation. Max Lord himself, the main Latino representative, is not evil. He's a Trump inspiration except he's far more sympathetic than Trump ever was, he's more short sighted with the wishes then generously malicious and Diana gets through to him by talking and showing him how his wishes are putting his son in danger. It's how Diana stopped Ares in "Gods and Monsters." The white saviour narrative isn't true - she saves the world by convincing everyone in the world to take back their wishes. This affects every country and ethnicity on a global scale including key people we meet - like the Middle Eastern oil magnate and the white UK couple. There are others but they stood out more. Diana doesn't save the world, the world saves itself. It’s also a movie about Wonder Woman who needs to stop a magic artefacts which grants wishes. The accusation that minorities or immigrants in the movie are defined by their being domestic abusers or bigots is not the whole story. Leaves a lot out of the context. For example, the domestic abuse being done is in Max's family and Max himself has trauma over that. It's a big reason why he became who he was and makes him sympathetic to the audience. Steve Trevor being perfect is annoying, but it is in character both in the comics and the last movie. He wasn’t a racist in that, either. Would they prefer him to be racist instead? I agree they needed to make other people, especially POC’s, less flawed but he’s the heart of the movie but I would be interested in the idea of him not being white was that possible in WW1? I don’t know. The movie is also more light in tone then the previous one, which may be why they avoided going into things like that too much. What bothers me about that article is that it gives no options for how to solve these problems, which makes me suspect they haven't watched the movie.

end of spoilers

There are problems in the movie, but those aren't mentioned in that article since it's about scoring points rather than being honest criticism. I'd be real interested in hearing their thoughts on movies like Captain Marvel and Black Widow. Proper representation in Hollywood movies is important, click bait isn't.

Gal Gadot’s supporting the IDF is controversial and that’s true. But that’s on the actress, not the Diana Prince character in the movie, and the article barely talks about it. That’s far more powerful as an attack on the movie then what the article was prioritizing.

The article completely ignores the spoilers:

the body swapping implications with Steve Trevor.

end of spoilers

Which is fine, but that doesn't make him right.

[Agent Z]

Thank you.

WONDER WOMAN '84:
spoilers:

First off, it’s a polarizing movie - not a critical failure. That portion of the film is in the fictional Middle Eastern country, Bialya, not Egypt. For context, Max went there to take out an oil magnate rival via his wishes. The oil magnate, who is Middle Eastern, is tricked into making a wish - which he did not take seriously because Max Lord was pathetic conman to him (which is true) said he wanted to take his sacred lands back and push out rival countries which manifested as a wall. This is clearly wrong and the man instantly regrets doing it but is powerless when Max uses the wish to brainwash his security force and leaves the man to die as enemies close in. At no point is the man made to be look like he's evil for doing this, it's actually very sympathetic since he got in over his head with Max. In the finale we return to him as he returns his wish and the wall evaporates. He's not an Egyptian king, btw. I think he might be a prince, but its his oil that Max wants that defines more than his status. I’ve only seen the movie once on the second I’ll see if he did say heathens and if he did yeah that’s something they shouldn’t have said. Could have the movie have done more with Middle Eastern/Arab representation - yes. The movie badly needed more of a supporting cast and giving other characters more depth like the oil magnate. Does that wish define who the man is through the movie? No. It was his not taking Max as a threat, and that he regrets his decision. Everyone makes mistakes, that's a huge theme in the movie. It also makes the assumption that there aren't people in the Middle east who would have opinions like that and that's not exclusive to the Middle East - people from all over the world make monstrous decisions, one big example is a white couple in the UK who get into fights, the wife wishes for all the Irish to get out of their region the other wants the husband wants her to drop dead she does. They're far more monstrous than the oil magnate ever was, and even they regret their decisions when the wishes come true. That's the monkey paw. The missile scene: you've seen the fight in the trailers, Diana is fighting an army convey - who are the security detail Max brainwashed. Her powers are weakening and Diana sees there are kids ahead on the road and wants to prevent them being run over by the convey - she does this by having Steve fire a missile for her to lasso to pull her forward and she throws the missile away so nobody is in danger from the act. Could they have tied something less sensitive, sure but they're fighting an army convey and kids are going to be run over and in this movie Diana saves lots of kids. It's her thing. The kids get saved and a woman in a burka gives thanks, including the kids who are happy they weren't ran over. Since the accusation is so blatantly weaponised they sound like they'd prefer those kids to be run over rather than be saved by Wonder Woman. Comparing that scene to those Palestinian kids being killed by a missile is grotesque, it makes it sound like Diana herself did that in the movie which is false. I agree the movie needed more positive Middle eastern representation. Max Lord himself, the main Latino representative, is not evil. He's a Trump inspiration except he's far more sympathetic than Trump ever was, he's more short sighted with the wishes then generously malicious and Diana gets through to him by talking and showing him how his wishes are putting his son in danger. It's how Diana stopped Ares in "Gods and Monsters." The white saviour narrative isn't true - she saves the world by convincing everyone in the world to take back their wishes. This affects every country and ethnicity on a global scale including key people we meet - like the Middle Eastern oil magnate and the white UK couple. There are others but they stood out more. Diana doesn't save the world, the world saves itself. It’s also a movie about Wonder Woman who needs to stop a magic artefacts which grants wishes. The accusation that minorities or immigrants in the movie are defined by their being domestic abusers or bigots is not the whole story. Leaves a lot out of the context. For example, the domestic abuse being done is in Max's family and Max himself has trauma over that. It's a big reason why he became who he was and makes him sympathetic to the audience. Steve Trevor being perfect is annoying, but it is in character both in the comics and the last movie. He wasn’t a racist in that, either. Would they prefer him to be racist instead? I agree they needed to make other people, especially POC’s, less flawed but he’s the heart of the movie but I would be interested in the idea of him not being white was that possible in WW1? I don’t know. The movie is also more light in tone then the previous one, which may be why they avoided going into things like that too much. What bothers me about that article is that it gives no options for how to solve these problems, which makes me suspect they haven't watched the movie.

end of spoilers

There are problems in the movie, but those aren't mentioned in that article since it's about scoring points rather than being honest criticism. I'd be real interested in hearing their thoughts on movies like Captain Marvel and Black Widow. Proper representation in Hollywood movies is important, click bait isn't.

Gal Gadot’s supporting the IDF is controversial and that’s true. But that’s on the actress, not the Diana Prince character in the movie, and the article barely talks about it. That’s far more powerful as an attack on the movie then what the article was prioritizing.

The article completely ignores the spoilers:

the body swapping implications with Steve Trevor.

end of spoilers

Which is fine, but that doesn't make him right.

spoilers:

Well, there's also the Arab guy wishing for more nuclear weapons. True, the idea is that everyone makes mistakes and is selfish in some way but the manner in which this can be portrayed can verve into the stereotypical and sadly this is not the first time the Wonder Woman franchise has stumbled into this: https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2752560.html.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Frankly, I think DC should just remove Bialya from continuity. If you're not going to use actual Middle Eastern countries, don't bother with racist pastiches.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Max is definitely evil. He's sympathetic compared to his inspiration but still evil. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

end of spoilers

[Agent Z]

Tupa is mentioned in the preview of Future State: Wonder Woman #1

https://www.herodope.com/2021/01/04/...n-1-preview-2/