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Thread: Steve

  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    What kind of music should still like? Is still a collector? Maybe he is a pagan like Diana? Or maybe Christan

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I don't understand why so many people want to nerf Steve and make him softer and gentler? How does that add anything to the mythos? The Wonder Woman book should challenge conventions and preconceived notions. He's best as a he-man master spy/soldier that's completely comfortable with a woman more powerful than him, someone with a noble soul and progressive political leanings normally reserved for an artist or poet. It's that dichotomy that makes him interesting. That said he shouldn't be constantly tied to Wonder Woman, he should appear in several books as head of A.R.G.U.S. and be DC's premier expert on espionage and the superhero community.
    I'm getting more than a little set of preconceptions here, like that having Steve leave the military would be to "nerf" him, or that softness and gentleness shouldn't be desirable traits for a man?

    I want to challenge those preconceptions. Make him a hero like Harald Edelstam or Raoul Wallenberg instead.
    Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I'm getting more than a little set of preconceptions here, like that having Steve leave the military would be to "nerf" him, or that softness and gentleness shouldn't be desirable traits for a man?

    I want to challenge those preconceptions. Make him a hero like Harald Edelstam or Raoul Wallenberg instead.
    I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with softness and gentleness, but I'm really not interested in a Steve Trevor that swings too far in either direction. A more well-rounded Trevor interests me most.
    Last edited by phonogram12; 09-12-2019 at 12:42 PM.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  4. #49
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    What kind of music should still like? Is still a collector? Maybe he is a pagan like Diana? Or maybe Christan
    I dont think Steve's religion was ever really explored and I always got the vibe that he doesn't put much thought into religion at all, but it'd be interesting to see how a christian handles interacting with a pantheon outside his faith who're proven to be exactly who they say they are.

    As for music.....a lot of soldiers listen to rock and metal (Five Finger Death Punch is a really popular band among soldiers these days it seems) but I wouldn't be surprised if he listens to country.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Writers have had trouble with Steve. What can they do to make him interesting? I mean come on. Your telling me that with all the time Steve and Diana spend he wouldn’t have give knowledge on certain magical things or Diana teaching Steve to fight like a amazon? Steve using any magical weapon to try at least fight some of her foes. We can get a good version of Steve it’s happened.
    The thing is, I don't want Steve to use magic or fight like an Amazon. Anyone who's asking for that is falling into the same old trap of wanting to "power him up" to either make him more "interesting" or "deserving" of Diana. I think he functions just fine as a non-magical mortal. There are so few relationships with female superheroes and civilian male love interests as it is, and I enjoy Diana and Steve's dynamic as it is. I also don't want Diana to train him to "fight like an Amazon". He's a man. He's never going to be an Amazon, and shouldn't fight like them. Instead, Diana should save that training for one of her female proteges.

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    But wouldn't that should a bridge being built? I mean the amazons weren't just women but men to. The Amazons did have spouses.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    But wouldn't that should a bridge being built? I mean the amazons weren't just women but men to. The Amazons did have spouses.
    Are you referring to the Nu52? Wasn't the majority of the Nu52 WW mythos retconned out of existence?

    Anyway, my point still stands. The Amazons are a race of warrior women who in some iterations (Post-Crisis, Rebirth, Legend of WW) are the reincarnated spirits of women who died by men's hands. In Pre-Crisis there was a whole deal with Hippolyta getting tricked by Heracles into giving up her golden girdle (hence her apprehension of Steve and Diana falling for him). Marston even created an origin story for the Bracelets of Submission: The Amazons were women enslaved by men who eventually broke free and founded their own women-only society, but kept wearing the bracelets as a reminder to never allow men's dominance over them, or they lose their power. With such a radical origin story, it's hard for me to believe men belong anywhere among the ranks of Amazons. The "Sons of Themyscira" thing is some serious BS.

    I do believe Amazons can still be champions of truth and justice and build a bridge to Man's World (in some versions, that is exactly WW's role, to serve as their Ambassador). But to allow men to live and train like the Amazons? That's a hard no.

    And no, the Amazons are definitely, 100% originally created as an all women club. No men there. Steve Trevor is already an honorary citizen or whatever. No need to take it any further than that IMO.
    Last edited by TheAnn; 09-13-2019 at 07:23 AM.

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    In the animated movie. I don't know. What would be wrong if the amazons yes we're all women? But was an egalitarian society. Men started living there too. It wasn't just a women’s city or country. There were men soldiers fighting as Amazonian soldiers?

    actually in Marston’s they didn't lose their powers rather go into a rage mode. I think that can be returned.

  9. #54
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnn View Post
    do believe Amazons can still be champions of truth and justice and build a bridge to Man's World (in some versions, that is exactly WW's role, to serve as their Ambassador). But to allow men to live and train like the Amazons? That's a hard no.
    I gotta agree. I really don't think that works. I mean, in a lot of versions isn't Diana's mission to spread Amazon philosophy among mankind? Because our ways aren't good enough? Themyscria is not comfortable with Man's World, in a lot of versions they get involved with us because they don't have a choice, and I imagine training a man in their ways would be seen as sacrilege of the highest order.

    Beyond that....I like to think that Steve's capable enough on his own. He'd definitely benefit from learning some moves, but he's a highly trained soldier; he should already be a pretty damn good fighter. Not Batman or anything, but still very capable. Some Amazon training would help but it's probably not going to make a huge, drastic change where he's capable of taking on Killer Croc in a brawl. Nor *should* it; Steve's not meant to be super human. I think that while the Amazon fighting style has superior technique, the real difference between an Amazon soldier and a human one is the amount of time they've trained. Amazons have spent centuries learning to fight, humans have mere decades. Learning the Amazon technique is not going to make Steve as capable as an Amazon.

    I wouldn't be against Diana giving Steve a weapon or two, something to give him a edge; an enchanted pistol or Amazonian blade or shield. That's be one thing. Sharing the secrets of a culture built on the bones of male violence? Might as well spit in Hera's eye.
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  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean shouldn't that also share she trued Steve? The Amazons aren't perfect either. I kind of wondered what if the Amazons are given a choice? That the gods didn't influence it? That a few amazons voiced enough of the Amazons staying on the Island?

  11. #56
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I mean shouldn't that also share she trued Steve? The Amazons aren't perfect either. I kind of wondered what if the Amazons are given a choice? That the gods didn't influence it? That a few amazons voiced enough of the Amazons staying on the Island?
    Not entirely sure what you mean here....the grammar is a little unclear. So if my reply doesn't make sense, my apologies. Anyway!

    Gods no, the Amazons are far from perfect. They're xenophobic and sexist and arrogant and there's an inherent hypocrisy behind "warriors for peace." But that's part of the deal; Diana goes to Man's World to show everyone how they *should* live, because everyone on Themyscria believes their ways are superior in all respects, only to find that mankind isn't completely hopeless and some of our ways are "better" than Diana's sisters'.

    The message is that men and women both have things to learn from each other, which has far richer narrative soil than "yeah, everyone should be just like the Amazons because they're perfect."

    How the relates to Steve.....the intolerance of the Amazons is exactly *why* Steve shouldn't get any of their training. The day the Amazons accept men into their training, and the day Man's World learns to accept some Amazonian teachings, is the day Diana's mission is over.
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  12. #57
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    What m Sorry mobile phone is difficult. All I’m saying I want to see more than one Amazon not be sexist. I mean maybe there is a group that decide to go off the main island. They start coed island but extremist go drive the men off. No new 52 killing men. Maybe one does
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 09-15-2019 at 08:55 AM.

  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    What if Steve was a musical take of guy. Who even performs some himself. Also, we don't know his family. What do you think about him being raised in a reserve family role? His dad is staying at home and mom works?

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    What m Sorry mobile phone is difficult. All Im saying I want to see more than one Amazon not be sexist. I mean maybe there is a group that decide to go off the main island. They start coed island but extremist go drive the men off. No new 52 killing men. Maybe one does
    Ah okay. Sure, I'd be fine with a few Amazons being less sexist. It could be a fun subplot to explore over time, as Diana interacts with Man's World and brings home news, some Amazons begin to question their beliefs and that causes some tension on the Island. Yeah, I'd be fine with something like that. Could be a good way to demonstrate development and rate the success Diana is having as ambassador.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    What if Steve was a musical take of guy. Who even performs some himself. Also, we don't know his family. What do you think about him being raised in a reserve family role? His dad is staying at home and mom works?
    I'd be fine with it. I think Steve needs to be a "man's man" but that doesn't mean he has to be some close-minded stereotype, or come from a traditional family unit where the mother stays home and cleans dishes. And I think Steve having a good singing voice would be a fine idea; the guy needs a few hobbies that help define him outside of his roles as soldier and Diana's love interest.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

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  15. #60
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I dont think Steve's religion was ever really explored and I always got the vibe that he doesn't put much thought into religion at all, but it'd be interesting to see how a christian handles interacting with a pantheon outside his faith who're proven to be exactly who they say they are.
    I think it would make sense if Steve was agnostic. Not religious or atheist, but somewhere in that sketchy middle ground. I can see him being one of those people that say “well, I’m spiritual”, or “I don’t know for sure, I’d need to see evidence.” Something to that effect.

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