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Thread: Steve

  1. #76
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    I mean, he's already heavily involved in the intelligence community thanks to his connection to Argus. Give him a mini and establish that he's one of the DCU's top spies. It would be an interesting contrast between Diana's goddess of truth role as well, having her love interest be in the business of trading in secrets.

    Honestly, this is kinda what I feel Diana needs more of in her supporting cast, anyway: people who offer differing points of view.
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  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    I mean, he's already heavily involved in the intelligence community thanks to his connection to Argus. Give him a mini and establish that he's one of the DCU's top spies. It would be an interesting contrast between Diana's goddess of truth role as well, having her love interest be in the business of trading in secrets.

    Honestly, this is kinda what I feel Diana needs more of in her supporting cast, anyway: people who offer differing points of view.
    This is a good point and seems to be what is missing from the books a different POV to challenge Diana's own.
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  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I agree. That’s why I liked marstons we get to see outside of how Diana sees things. We got to see Etta’s views and Steve’s views

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    This is a good point and seems to be what is missing from the books a different POV to challenge Diana's own.
    I mean, sure, surrounding yourself with like minded people can be ideal in real life, but a constant echo chamber with characters in serialized fiction can get pretty dull unless you break it up every once in awhile.
    Last edited by phonogram12; 09-19-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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  5. #80
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I’m curious. Should Steve have his own little rival? I mean every now and then Lois and Selina have rivals in whatever, the career they have. Why not Steve.

  6. #81
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Im curious. Should Steve have his own little rival? I mean every now and then Lois and Selina have rivals in whatever, the career they have. Why not Steve.
    I think it's a good idea. Steve needs more development in most areas and character dynamics like this (which I believe you mean to not be straight-up combative, but more like workplace rivals always fighting over the same promotion) could be a lot of fun.

    Maybe Tom Tresser? There's a ton of overlap between them (spies, military servicemen, etc etc) so you could have a not-always-so-friendly rivalry between them in the workplace (who's the better spy?) and, especially if you say that Diana dated Tom briefly while she and Steve weren't together, you could have some personal rivalry going on too.
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  7. #82
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    Workplace rivals. One thing I also wonder is how the relationship between Diana and Steve should happen? Due to Steve being her first real man how should it work out? Maybe like you said Tom should be her first romantic interested. Another thing is how should Steve win the amazons over? One thing I often had has a story idea is Steve having some kind of t competition? Or maybe he does something that shows him he is an honorable Amazon? I feel like Steve should be the first honorable Amazon

  8. #83
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Well, for Diana's romantic life, I'm not a fan of the chaste virgin goddess vibe that a lot of writers tried to pull in years past. I like Diana to have a little of that OG kink she used to have (though damn few writers can/could pull it off today) and I'm definitely fine with her having a love life, and while I think Steve is the "end game" I'm not against her dating other people earlier in her career.

    And I definitely think Diana should be bisexual, or something else other than just straight (the attraction to men has to remain, it's too entrenched in her history to make her a lesbian). It seems both fitting thematically and likely given the society she grew up in, where homosexuality would almost certainly be more common and less polarizing than it is in most of the world.

    So in my head, Diana has relationships with various Amazons (some of whom have been name dropped by Rucka) in her youth. When Steve lands on the Island she's fascinated and attracted to him, but we'll leave that "love at first sight" and "abandoning her home to help some dude she just met" stuff out of it. Once Diana arrives in Man's World I'd like to see her and Steve begin growing closer, but the timing just isn't right. They have a few dates perhaps, but it just doesn't click right. Diana's in a whole new world and everything is strange and interesting and the people are so exotic and....I just dont think Diana is at a point in her life where she's going to see what's right in front of her or be able to resist sampling everything Man's World has to offer.

    I very much agree with her and Clark dating early in their heroic careers; they've always had chemistry, they're young, they're riding the high of being god-like heroes fresh on the scene.....I can totally see them dating. For six months. And then they realize that they just don't do it for each other and have a unnaturally clean and amicable break up where they both consider the other among their closest friends, but there's virtually zero romantic or sexual interest left at all.

    At some point I can see her dating Tom, and that relationship going very much the way it did in comics. They're together for a decent amount of time (year or more) but it's often rough, and Diana feels like she's just using Tom as a substitute for something she's missing.

    We can (and should) have at least one woman added to the list of ex's. At the moment I can't think of anyone who fits the bill from her various supporting casts. But, random idea here, maybe it could be a pre-Cheetah Barbara Ann?

    I'd have to refresh my old Greek history/myth lessons but as I recall the Greeks often had very....open....ideas about sex, and orgies and public bathing and naked wrestling and all manner of things were commonplace that we'd be scandalized at in modern America. I'd be fine with Diana taking some of those elements (after doing a bit of research to see which might fit Themyscria) as well.....but it can't be stupid high school fantasy here; we need more "New52 Batwoman/Maggie Sawyer sex scene" (which was handled well and maturely) and a whole lot less "New52 Batman/Catwoman on the roof" crap.

    And finally, Diana comes back around to Steve, who's been her friend through all of this. And Steve himself would have to move on and date other women during this time too; no "waiting for Diana" stuff; let the man try to find love instead of waiting for Diana to come home like a puppy. But either way, they eventually end up together and when that does finally happen I'd want their dynamic to be handled with the kind of grace, understanding, and love you see out of the best of Clark and Lois; no stupid melodrama, no problems like infidelity or even suspicion of infidelity, etc.
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  9. #84
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One thing I feel is that even before Steve does crash on the Island. The amazons were already debating whether to go to the outside world. Steve was just the last push

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well, for Diana's romantic life, I'm not a fan of the chaste virgin goddess vibe that a lot of writers tried to pull in years past. I like Diana to have a little of that OG kink she used to have (though damn few writers can/could pull it off today) and I'm definitely fine with her having a love life, and while I think Steve is the "end game" I'm not against her dating other people earlier in her career.
    Yeah, Marston's Diana had a rather earthy aspect, and I think it's a pity it's been lost. I do think there are more than a few writers who could do it and do it well, but I'm afraid that DC editorial and too many of the leading writers have trouble with it. (Writers who can or could do well with Diana in this regard: Gail Simone, Amanda Conner, Stjepan Sejic, and also Wilson though she emphasised other aspects. The movie also did well here.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    So in my head, Diana has relationships with various Amazons (some of whom have been name dropped by Rucka) in her youth. When Steve lands on the Island she's fascinated and attracted to him, but we'll leave that "love at first sight" and "abandoning her home to help some dude she just met" stuff out of it. Once Diana arrives in Man's World I'd like to see her and Steve begin growing closer, but the timing just isn't right. They have a few dates perhaps, but it just doesn't click right. Diana's in a whole new world and everything is strange and interesting and the people are so exotic and....I just dont think Diana is at a point in her life where she's going to see what's right in front of her or be able to resist sampling everything Man's World has to offer.
    I also like how Steve's and Diana's relationship develops in the movie, where Diana doesn't really "discover" Steve as a potential romantic interest until rather far into the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    We can (and should) have at least one woman added to the list of ex's. At the moment I can't think of anyone who fits the bill from her various supporting casts. But, random idea here, maybe it could be a pre-Cheetah Barbara Ann?
    I think Rucka did want to go there in Rebirth, but wasn't allowed to. But it really would fit thematically in so many ways.

    In any case, I think Diana is much more into relationships than into sex. Her attitudes towards sex is however rather different (as the movie made clear).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'd have to refresh my old Greek history/myth lessons but as I recall the Greeks often had very....open....ideas about sex, and orgies and public bathing and naked wrestling and all manner of things were commonplace that we'd be scandalized at in modern America. I'd be fine with Diana taking some of those elements (after doing a bit of research to see which might fit Themyscria) as well.....but it can't be stupid high school fantasy here; we need more "New52 Batwoman/Maggie Sawyer sex scene" (which was handled well and maturely) and a whole lot less "New52 Batman/Catwoman on the roof" crap.
    Here I'll include my usual disclaimer that Diana and the Amazons aren't necessarily Greek (Greek influences yes, but to me they should draw on a lot more motifs from Central Asia and so on), and that one should be careful to interpret foreign cultures based on one's own categorisations. The ancient Greeks (and many other cultures) didn't associate nudity with sex.
    Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #86
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Here I'll include my usual disclaimer that Diana and the Amazons aren't necessarily Greek (Greek influences yes, but to me they should draw on a lot more motifs from Central Asia and so on), and that one should be careful to interpret foreign cultures based on one's own categorisations. The ancient Greeks (and many other cultures) didn't associate nudity with sex.
    You're right; the Amazons in DC aren't strictly Greek and other cultures should have an influence on them (I just didn't want to take the time to type it all out in an already long post). And no, nudity and sex weren't synonymous for those cultures either. But to a large degree they are for modern Western cultures, and I think seeing how Diana's culture bounces off our own is one of the more interesting things you can do with the narrative. I'm not advocating Diana have orgies every other issue or anything, but the differences between what she considers normal behavior and what we do is ripe with story potential; Amazon culture is so very different from our own I think it's a shame more writers don't delve into those differences.
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  12. #87
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    And no, nudity and sex weren't synonymous for those cultures either. But to a large degree they are for modern Western cultures, and I think seeing how Diana's culture bounces off our own is one of the more interesting things you can do with the narrative. I'm not advocating Diana have orgies every other issue or anything, but the differences between what she considers normal behavior and what we do is ripe with story potential; Amazon culture is so very different from our own I think it's a shame more writers don't delve into those differences.
    Exactly, and I think we are entirely on the same page here.

    It also gives an opening for humour and levity in the comics than is different from the usual banter. The movie was really funny at times, but it was a different type of humour than the usual quips that dominate at least the Marvel movies. Sure, Sameer had a couple of quips (like "I'm both frightened and aroused"), but Diana didn't. All her lines were deadly serious; their humour came from exposing our mores and taboos for what they are, and by making us see things in a new light.
    Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I'm curious how would you write Steve being the first male to actually be invited to the island? That sure Diana is dating Tom but somehow Steve is the only guy who is constantly invited on the island.

  14. #89
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I dunno if I'd want Steve "constantly" invited; I like a little tension with the in-laws, but.....

    I suppose it would probably have to be a matter of him just proving himself. The Amazons aren't really a individualistic society like America is, but they do recognize and encourage individual achievement. On Themyscria, community comes first and no one would refuse to lay down her life for her people, but individual achievement and goals are a close second in priority (they're very competitive). So I think Steve would have to prove himself selfless and willing to sacrifice himself for Themyscria while also proving he's badass enough that his sacrifice might actually mean something. And of course, learning and understanding their ways and beliefs is a absolute must. I might even go so far as to think the Amazons would demand Steve live by their codes, if they were to truly accept him as one of them.

    Bear in mind I'm looking at this not as the Amazons just accepting Steve and being okay with the guy. I'm thinking of them actually bringing him into their culture, considering him one of their people. That's a much, much bigger honor, that's the fist male Amazon in centuries.

    I like how the film had Steve doing his part to defend the Island as soon as he arrived. I never considered it before but in retrospect the Amazons respond to action far better than words. Putting the lasso on Steve would prove he's not an enemy, but wouldn't make him a friend. But fighting nazi's on the beach right after his plane crashes? That gets him some points and is probably what kept him from being instantly executed.

    From there, I'd like to pull from Hercules' twelve tasks. I wouldn't want anyone to say "Okay Steve, you gotta do X, Y, and Z, and then we'll reward you with sisterhood and this commemorative plate." But I'd like Steve to accomplish several big things that, once it's all over, become a kind of legend; "the X times Steve Trevor saved Themyscria and proved his heart was akin to ours, which gained him acceptance on our shores." I wouldn't want this to be a goal anyone sets out to achieve, I think it should just be something that happens.

    I think you could use this as a kind of barometer for Diana's mission; whatever Steve's dynamic with the Island is, it represents how Diana's mission in Man's World is going.

    I think whatever these tasks are, they have to be huge. Something he shouldn't rightfully be able to do, but somehow pulls off. He jumped in front of a bullet for Diana? Not good enough. He challenged Achilles to a fight, trying to save an elderly Amazon oracle? That's a solid warm up, but still not good enough. He single handedly held Doom's Doorway closed and prevented the Titans of myth from escaping? Now we're talking. He beat Themyscria's best minds in a game of logic and Amazon history? That might count too.

    So yeah. Tasks for Steve to be accepted as an Amazon. No idea how many or what they are. But that's what I'd want.
    Last edited by Ascended; 09-22-2019 at 08:51 PM.
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  15. #90
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    True. What about Steve's first tasks be. Maybe wanting to see his negating skills first hand. Due to hearing on many of the countries can go to war on the littlest of thing they test him of that. One thing borrowing from Orana. They want to see him does he value his loyalties or wins. In situations where it seems hard to win. I know many people disagree but when the Amazons accept him shouldn't he learn a few skills? They learn from him and he learns from them? Not saying everything but a few things

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