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Thread: Steve

  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Default Steve

    Writers have had trouble with Steve. What can they do to make him interesting? I mean come on. Your telling me that with all the time Steve and Diana spend he wouldn’t have give knowledge on certain magical things or Diana teaching Steve to fight like a amazon? Steve using any magical weapon to try at least fight some of her foes. We can get a good version of Steve it’s happened.

  2. #2
    Spectacular Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    What can they do to make him interesting?
    Giving him a personality would be a good start.

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I think the key to making Steve work isn't in his skillset but in his personality.

    He's already a badass soldier who's worked with Argus and the League. Sure, some Amazon training would make him even more effective and unique and there's definitely some appeal to a "military battle mage" sort of direction, but that's not gonna get you very far outside of action sequences.

    No, what Steve really needs is character development. We need to see what his hobbies are, what his favorite music/food/vacation spot is. We need to see what he does when he's not at work and not with Diana. Does he play an instrument? Does he like art? Play video games? Baseball? Hunting? Fishing? How does he fill his hours? We need to see his family and friends, his own supporting cast beyond Diana (the Oddfellows are a great start, but again, tied up in Steve's military aspects). We need to know what his character traits are; what are his flaws, his goals, his hopes, his virtues, etc, and those need to go beyond the basic archetypes of "love interest" and "good soldier."

    And all of that takes time to develop, especially when comics these days spend more time on the main plot and action and less time on the characters' down time.
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    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One thing in the early days is he did like cooking, did like working with children. He loved to travel and work with people. The two best example of Steve are movie Steve and LoWW. He is wide eye, adventurous, quick to act. His flaws could be he is also loyal to his job at times despite what the military has done. Now outside of military flaws can be who be truth and maybe he is bias toward certain things not something racist just a little bias. Something like when he works with his sister he often he is bias towards the softball team because he has trained his niece
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 08-11-2019 at 08:14 AM.

  5. #5
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    One thing in the early days is he did like cooking, did like working with children. He loved to travel and work with people. The two best example of Steve are movie Steve and LoWW. He is wide eye, adventurous, quick to act. His flaws could be he is also loyal to his job at times despite what the military has done. Now outside of military flaws can be who be truth and maybe he is bias toward certain things not something racist just a little bias. Something like when he works with his sister he often he is bias towards the softball team because he has trained his niece
    I definitely think the idea of Steve being a spy works well in conjunction with Diana's whole "truth" shtick. It works for creating tension between them since they view the world differently (and the movie played on that very well). But as important as it is for Steve to have traits, hobbies, and beliefs that compliment and/or challenge Diana's, he also needs opinions and views that aren't based on how they'll impact his girlfriend but are "his" alone. If that makes sense?

    Back in the day, a lot of his hobbies (like cooking) seemed to be taking female social roles (keeping in mind the era these were written) and putting them on a guy. And honestly I think that still works today, just to a much lesser extent. It's not weird anymore for a guy to enjoy cooking or taking care of kids. But it does add to his character and it does play against traditional gender roles, which might not be as firmly set as they once were but are still in the public consciousness, and that helps balance his "military alpha male" archetype and makes him a little more rounded.

    But I think you need to go further than that too. Steve can't just be a soldier who likes "womanly" things. What's his favorite sport? Does he care about sports at all? Who's his favorite team? Does he have an eye for art or an ear for music? Does he pay attention to politics or does he just follow orders? What are his political views? Is he left, right, or centrist? Stuff like that, which is "gender neutral" needs to be included too, I think.
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    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Maybe he is a baseball and basketball type of guy. He like classical, jazz, rocks and blues kind of guy. He tries to be neutral on political views. But hates when the military or government going after the innocent people despite being illegals l. Maybe another big thing is his religious views

  7. #7
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Oh I didn't consider what his religion might be. That's a fascinating idea, given who he hangs out with. How do you justify your religion when your girlfriend is literally a god (or demigod, depending on the continuity and era) from a different faith?

    As for his politics....I think I'd actually make him something *other* than a centrist. Most heroes are apolitical or centrist so they can appeal to the widest possible audience but supporting characters have more freedom and I think it might be interesting to use Steve to explore some topics. Nothing too heavy handed of course, no need to go all-in on the commentary (and few writers can do it well these days and even fewer readers can see an opinion they disagree with without losing their sh*t).

    I dunno, just for the sake of novelty I might want to see Steve as a conservative. Not the crazy BS the Republican party has devolved into, but right leaning without toeing the party line. Of the handful of heroes who do express political beliefs, 99% of them are left leaning (which is fine with me since I am too) but it'd be interesting to see a character speak from the other side of things. And since political policy has a big impact on the military and a soldier's life Steve probably *should* have opinions of his own rather than ignoring it (I never understood some guys who didn't pay attention while serving; those politicians decide when and where we go! How can you *not* pay attention to that?). But this isn't anything I'm really hungry to see either, so Steve could remain totally apolitical and it won't bother me. Still, given how Diana's story is so deeply wrapped up in social issues and politics it'd seem odd for her main love interest to have nothing to say on the matter.
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  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    When you mean conservative. Actually how much because Steve for many years has been large support of women's rights and immigrants rights. So a conservative with some left-leaning views. Now for religion, I neither thought about him as an atheist or Christan. However, given the story, I think an atheist would work better. However, without being Diana's foes what should his flaws be? I mean yea your girlfriend is demigoddess but I feel that would be too easy. I feel that Steve due to him hanging out with Diana enough times would be interesting to see him actually holding his own a few times due to him knowing how to use certain artifacts. Now not for super long but long enough to where it's clear that he isn't someone you should mess with. Plus the Amazon training would make him pretty much a superhuman. One thing would be him finding out he killed innocent people. That someone like Waller or someone else had tricked him into committing some crimes. However, whatever flaws? PTSD but that is also linked to miltary.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 08-11-2019 at 09:33 AM.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    How should Steve feel about the Amazons? Even after leaving?

  10. #10
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    When you mean conservative. Actually how much because Steve for many years has been large support of women's rights and immigrants rights
    Well, despite what the current Republican party indicates, support of equal rights for women and immigrants isn't actually a left-only view. I have a number of conservative friends who totally support equally for all (even gay people! ). But if you want to say it's a left-only view, okay. Can't really argue against that given how modern Republicans act.

    But yes, I'd maybe write Steve as a conservative with some left-leaning views. Only fools toe the party line completely, most people might consider themselves on one side of the aisle but still agree with the other side on certain topics. And beyond that, it would make him look more rounded as a character (it's actually a shorthand trick for character development).

    I think where I might hone in on Steve being conservative, and I've given this absolutely no thought at all so Im just firing from the hip, would be support for smaller government and States rights (which no one talks about anymore but is generally considered a right-leaning view), responsible fiscal spending (which again, neither party really bothers with anymore, stupid $15 Billion wall) and gun rights. Not that I'd want to see Steve toeing the NRA's moronic hard line but I'd make him a firm believer and defender of the 2nd (but not blind about it, he'd probably approve of background checks and whatnot). I might also play into the immigration debate and have Steve be totally fine with immigrants coming into the country legally (paying their taxes, getting citizenship, etc) but have less tolerance for those who do it illegally. I wouldnt have him support crap like separating families and not keeping track of whose kid is where (what a crime against humanity that BS is!), nothing that extreme, but I could see Steve saying "Come to America, by all means....but do it the right way or not at all."

    Now for religion, I neither thought about him as an atheist or Christan. However, given the story, I think an atheist would work better.
    Maybe Jewish?

    Whatever his religion might or might not be, I definitely agree with you that you could pull some really interesting stories out of him having to reflect on and confront his faith after meeting Diana and discovering the Greek gods are real. Maybe he thinks they're just very powerful beings and not actual gods, but even that would force him to consider his beliefs, which could be a great exploration of his character and a quality story. I've often wanted to see DC (and Marvel) tackle this issue; in a world where regular men can become god-like and there are actually gods out there, how does that impact religion around the world? Are there temples to Thor in the MU? Stuff like that yknow?

    However, without being Diana's foes what should his flaws be?
    I think you can do a lot with the differences between how Steve views the world and how Diana does. Steve's pragmatic and utilitarian, Diana's an idealist. Stuff like that, which has been talked about before. But as for "Steve only" flaws that have nothing to do with Diana or his job? I think you can have a nice selection of weird and silly flaws (he loves to play guitar, but is really damn bad at it?) and more serious ones (maybe he has a temper and can't think about things rationally when he's angry....but not to an abusive level or anything of course). Maybe Steve's been a spy for so long he's become a habitual liar, even about things he doesn't need to lie about? Maybe he drinks more than he should, like a MCU Tony Stark level of drinking, but not a "Demon in the Bottle" comic Iron Man level of drinking? At this point Steve's largely a blank canvas so I feel like you could insert almost any medium-sized flaw into his character and make it work.
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  11. #11
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    How should Steve feel about the Amazons? Even after leaving?
    Respect, admiration, and not a small amount of awe I would think. They're pretty fantastic, after all.

    But this could be a potential divide between Steve and Diana too. Maybe Steve agrees with much of the Amazon philosophy (a lot of it is basic common sense and basic respect) but he isn't down with their idea of "loving submission." I mean, even I hesitate about that one the way it's often been defined by the Amazons. Loving submission to my wife? Yes, she is my sun and (along with our kids) the reason I do anything. Loving submission to a caring and considerate governing body/authority? Not a chance in hell.
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  12. #12
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I think the trouble with Steve is less the lack of details as it is with the lack of personality. Original Steve was crafted as the audience self-insert character, and those tend to be rather bland. But the Wonder Woman comic has evolved since then, as has the genre, but he is still stuck there.

    We didn't get much personal information about Steve in the movie, but we got the most important parts: he got some ideals, some personality, and most importantly a story arc of his own.
    Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Going back to Perez’s steve. His mother seems to be a big part of his life. What if she didn't die? His mother telling him stories of these creatures and women. I don't know I feel some parallels of the two should be important. Diana’s mother and Steve moms as important. She is the reason he wanted to be a pilot. Unlike Diana his father is important but maybe he comes from a divorced family. I don't know what to do with his dad unless we add his movie dads origins too.


    I often wonder since we don't get too see a lot of Steve’s backstory, what would make something interesting to do with him? What if his mother was pregnant with steve? I don't know I find this one panel of Diana calling Steve her secret boy. But that would be too easy.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 08-11-2019 at 12:51 PM.

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Steve's backstory? Hmmm.

    Well first off I think I'd want to avoid the "military family" thing. Almost every soldier in comics comes from a long line of soldiers (most of whom died before their time). It's a solid route and everything but it's like the basic bitch of comic book solider origins.

    I definitely agree with making Steve's mother important to him. Don't think I'd do anything spectacular with her, or Steve's father. Just make them good, normal people living good, normal lives who had a son who joined a cause and stumbled into the greatest adventure and woman anyone could hope to come across.

    But Steve's mom.....yeah, there's something viable to work with there. Hell, just giving them a strong, healthy relationship in the current day would be almost novel by comic book standards! I'll kick some ideas around but at the moment the only thing I got is that Steve's mom adores Diana but does not treat her any differently than she would any other girlfriend. Steve's mom is not impressed by Diana's royal heritage, god-like powers (or god status, if that's where Diana's at in the story), etc. So many people in the DCU (and real world) don't see Diana the person, they see Diana the icon. And I'd make Steve's mother an exception to that. She'd love Diana, because Di is lovable as hell, but she'd still make Diana clean her own plate after dinner and make her wear a coat outside because it's cold.
    Last edited by Ascended; 08-11-2019 at 04:02 PM.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    The only reason why I mentioned military is what Perez did with the mother. I liked the idea of Diana being named not by a God but by someone the Amazons respected. So something like Nessie and her family?

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