Diana and the Military

[Ascended]

I firmly believe that Etta should be a college student at Holiday university (or whatever the school was called). And once the narrative unfolds some and she graduates, she should be a professor at the same school.

I think Diana's ties to the military offer a lot of ground to work with and an easy way to introduce story hooks, but not everyone in her world should come from the battlefield or Olympus and Etta is a fantastic way to bring some "normal" people into Diana's life and keep her grounded. And she's of course a great way to explore women-centric social issues.

And you're right; Etta (proper Ettas, not the weak sauce Amanda Waller copies) has mountains of personality. Hell, basic Etta has more personality than virtually any other supporting character in DC not named Lois Lane or Jimmy Olsen!

[WonderScott]

As I've been thinking about Etta, I've definitely come around to SeigePerilous02 and Ascended's thinking.

In my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee, I want to take Etta back to being one of Diana's first and one of her greatest BFFs. And I think that a better way to do that is have her return to her roots as a student at Holliday College and develop her from there. Her characterization in De Liz's The Legend of Wonder Woman was nearly a pitch-perfect modern take (despite being set in the 40s) and Diana should meet her and befriend her in one of her earliest adventures in Patriarch's World.

[AmiMizuno]

This is why I think maybe not have Etta in the military rather have Etta and the rest of the Holliday girls be the first Amazons in the Patriarchal world. They are taught and trained by Diana to become the first amazons would be a great storyline. When Diana doesn't true the army or needs extra help on her magical adventures the Holliday Girls are who she calls. I don't know to give a modern twist we should have the Holliday Girls be no strangers to magic. Where they live is the best way. Gateway Holliday University is at the center of an interdimensional city.

[Ascended]

I am definitely down with the idea of Gateway City being an actual gateway city, with portals to any number of different places around the globe, space, and other realms. I've seen that mentioned before here, was it your idea originally? I really love it. Just to warn you (or whoever came up with this first) if I ever somehow end up writing Wonder Woman (which will never happen since Im not looking for a job at DC) I'm blatantly and unapologetically stealing the concept.

Im not sure about Etta and the Girls becoming Amazons or mages though. If the main purpose of Etta and the Girls is to provide supporting cast members who are regular people that keep Diana grounded, then enhancing them with Amazon training and/or magic pulls them away from what they're meant to provide in the narrative. I mean, Diana could give Etta a relic of some kind for self-defense (which would make sense) but that's a very different animal than teaching her fully in the Amazon arts of war and magic.

However, you could use Donna and Cassie for that. Present them as the first "students" Diana has, and then expand on that and create a small unit of "Wonder Girls" who Diana trains (you dont actually have to call them Wonder Girls, Im just trying to get the idea across here). That helps solidify Cass and Donna in Diana's mythos (and both are rarely very present in Diana's pages so this would help keep them around), it provides the "new Amazons" idea you're suggesting (which I think does have a lot of merit), and it brings Diana's talents as a teacher and mentor to the fore as well as offering new, easy story options (how many arcs could you pull from a student getting in over her head before you repeat yourself? Dozens, I'd expect!)

[AmiMizuno]

Yea it was my idea. My idea was that Gateway city is all connected to each other. So Diana having citizenship is Citizenship to all the realms. So Any country she is a citizen or at least some type of ambassador. One idea also is at least two or one of her villains live there. One being Circe and the other being Cheetah. I say this since gods live somewhere in one of the realms of Gateway.


All I'm saying is the Holliday Girls should be trained can defend themselves. I'm not saying them use magic just be able to help Diana in certain things from time to time. Nowadays Holliday girls would be seen as an easy thing for Diana's foe to try and target so I would like to see them sometimes hold their own. So maybe Cassie can lead this group? The Holliday Girls can some self-defense by Diana but Cassie really takes things up a notch. A

[Tzigone]

I firmly believe that Etta should be a college student at Holiday university (or whatever the school was called). And once the narrative unfolds some and she graduates, she should be a professor at the same school.

I think Diana's ties to the military offer a lot of ground to work with and an easy way to introduce story hooks, but not everyone in her world should come from the battlefield or Olympus and Etta is a fantastic way to bring some "normal" people into Diana's life and keep her grounded. And she's of course a great way to explore women-centric social issues.

And you're right; Etta (proper Ettas, not the weak sauce Amanda Waller copies) has mountains of personality. Hell, basic Etta has more personality than virtually any other supporting character in DC not named Lois Lane or Jimmy Olsen!

I agree, except that I wouldn't have Etta be a professor at the university. She'd start as an undergrad. And then get her bachelor's degree and move on from the university. I don't think her then getting her PhD from the same university, and then teaching there works so well. I'd have Etta remain Diana's besty, but the other Holliday girls would move on, and most would simply remember it as college adventures. No idea what career I'd have Etta pursue.

I definitely agree that Diana should have a civilian side to her life - interact with "normal " people - well, maybe Etta isn't that normal (she's the sort ready to jump into action and fight stronger foes and absolutely fearless), but not military or superhero. I also like going back to the era when Etta's wasn't connected to Steve except through Diana.

[AmiMizuno]

This is why I kind of like the idea of Diana Prince. Her civilian Id. Not so much of a secret id just for her to use at times. In terms of papers, she can claim she is from an uncharted Island.

[Tzigone]

This is why I kind of like the idea of Diana Prince. Her civilian Id. Not so much of a secret id just for her to use at times. In terms of papers, she can claim she is from an uncharted Island.

I kinda like it, too. Though I'd probably see if her paperwork could be faked somehow. I'd want Steve to know truth, and maybe he could help in that (know someone who could do fake IDs). I'm big on Lois knowing secret from early days, too. But many like the traditional love-interest-in-the-dark. It's just "uncharted island" could lead to deportation or other unwelcome attention.

Also - in reference to my earlier post - another reason for Etta not to be a professor is that Julia already is one.

[AmiMizuno]

Faked in what way? I mean paradise island is a real island.

[Tzigone]

Faked in what way? I mean paradise island is a real island.

I meant in the sense of having a Diana Prince identity that the government doesn't know about. I'm amenable to one they do know about, but one they don't lends to more separation from military, IMO. So faked paperwork would be a birth certificate, etc. indication Diana Prince does not come the same island of Amazons as Wonder Woman.

[Ascended]

Yea it was my idea. My idea was that Gateway city is all connected to each other

Yeah, pretty great idea and extremely fitting for Diana. Totally stealing it.

All I'm saying is the Holliday Girls should be trained can defend themselves.

Oh, that'd be fine. I don't want the girls being a group of highly effective combatants who can go toe-to-toe with trained special forces and monsters, but if you're friends with Wonder Woman you definitely should know some self defense, and maybe have a, I dunno, dragonfire wand tucked away in your purse, just in case.

I agree, except that I wouldn't have Etta be a professor at the university. She'd start as an undergrad. And then get her bachelor's degree and move on from the university. I don't think her then getting her PhD from the same university, and then teaching there works so well. I'd have Etta remain Diana's besty, but the other Holliday girls would move on, and most would simply remember it as college adventures. No idea what career I'd have Etta pursue.

The problem with that is you end up rotating the supporting cast out. Again. Now, if the girls all graduate and move off into their own careers but remain friends with Diana, hang with her on a regular basis, and remain part of the standard supporting cast, then yes, absolutely. But if you have them graduate and then leave, and only see Diana rarely.....you end up with the same supporting cast problem this property has suffered from for decades.

I definitely agree that Diana should have a civilian side to her life - interact with "normal " people - well, maybe Etta isn't that normal (she's the sort ready to jump into action and fight stronger foes and absolutely fearless), but not military or superhero. I also like going back to the era when Etta's wasn't connected to Steve except through Diana.

I think it's important Diana have normal people in her life, absolutely. And I'm fine with her having a fake ID so she can go out to dinner with her friends, buy clothes, etc. I don't want her having a full blown secret identity with a 9-5 job and all that; we don't need a "Clark Kent/full life" type of secret identity, but something like Batman's "Matches Malone" that Diana uses just so she can have a few hours of normalcy here and there? Yeah, that should be a thing.

[Tzigone]

I agree, except that I wouldn't have Etta be a professor at the university. She'd start as an undergrad. And then get her bachelor's degree and move on from the university. I don't think her then getting her PhD from the same university, and then teaching there works so well. I'd have Etta remain Diana's besty, but the other Holliday girls would move on, and most would simply remember it as college adventures. No idea what career I'd have Etta pursue.

The problem with that is you end up rotating the supporting cast out. Again. Now, if the girls all graduate and move off into their own careers but remain friends with Diana, hang with her on a regular basis, and remain part of the standard supporting cast, then yes, absolutely. But if you have them graduate and then leave, and only see Diana rarely.....you end up with the same supporting cast problem this property has suffered from for decades.

Only some of them. Steve and Etta always remain - they're the Lois and Jimmy. But all the Holliday girls that many of us couldn't canonically name - they are around for a couple of years and then graduate. And would they all stay in the same city after that? Maybe they get together once every few years for reunions, but I don't want 5+ of them involved in Diana's daily (or even weekly) life. Too many characters. And the non-Etta members would never have been significant for me as individuals, only as a group. I don't want them stuck in their college mindset/relationships/city forever just to give Diana support (which is why Nessie and Cassie would grow up and move on, too).

I'd start with Steve, Etta, and the Holliday girls. The girls help Diana acclimate to this life and offer a sense of Amazon camaraderie. Quickly bring in Julia and Nessie - possibly via a civilian career for Diana. Julia will remain, and Nessie will be a big part of her life, but will be much smaller in Diana's as she goes away to college, etc. Helena Sandsmark, when introduced, would be a supporting character for Cassie, not for Diana, for the most part. Diana and Cassie would sort of serve as supporting characters for each other.

But it's important to me that Cassie and Donna get to the stars in their own stories, not just support for Diana's. And, like they let Dick do for a while before reverting him, they would stand alone a lot and move away from mentor figures just as adult children typically have more and more of their lives separate from their parents (at least in modern, western society).

It's one the issues when you have a character or cast explicitly in a temporary phase of life - these people won't generally be around forever. A job - sure they can stay. High school or college students - they are in a phase of life that genrally ends relatively quickly and less likely to be in a "forever place," physically speaking. And more likely to attain relationships (rather than already have them, and have the balance worked out) that will take more of their time and attention (spouses and kids).

If the Holliday girls are already grown and employed and not college students, that changes the landscape and likely longevity of them as a supporting cast to me significantly.

[AmiMizuno]

I meant in the sense of having a Diana Prince identity that the government doesn't know about. I'm amenable to one they do know about, but one they don't lends to more separation from military, IMO. So faked paperwork would be a birth certificate, etc. indication Diana Prince does not come the same island of Amazons as Wonder Woman.

True. Maybe one way to solve this is the fact PI was named something else that modern people don’t know about? I mean sense Amazons are based on Syrian warrior women who knows what the island could have first been named of. I don’t know maybe certain members of the military. Even Diana isn’t always truing with certain people in the military. People like Steve yea. I don’t know I often thought maybe the gods would give her some papers. They can bend reality

[Ascended]

If the Holliday girls are already grown and employed and not college students, that changes the landscape and likely longevity of them as a supporting cast to me significantly.

I get what you mean, and generally I'd agree with you. But in Diana's case, given how her supporting cast hasn't remained consistent in decades and how that's added to the destabilization of her mythos and stories....even though what you say makes sense, I fear it'd just be adding to a problem the property has suffered from too much already.

I wouldn't be against the idea of the Holiday Girls being brought in at a more stable phase of life, enabling them to remain part of the cast in a more natural, organic way, though. And you're right that most of us couldn't name them in the first place so they're pretty low on the priority list....but isn't that indicative of the problem? Etta was always the "face" of the Girls; the main member of the group who got the majority of dialogue and interaction with Diana. But we can't discount the importance of having stable, secondary characters in the supporting cast either. I think it's similar to the cops in Gotham. Gordon and Bullock are the main GCPD members, but we've also got several other recurring faces that make the GCPD, and Gotham itself, feel more fleshed out. Likewise, we used to have employees at the Daily Planet who were secondary supporting cast members and rarely contributed anything of value to the story, but their presence was consistent and made the Planet offices feel more real and well rounded.

[Katana500]

I think Wonder Woman serving in the military is a bad idea. Doesn't make sense for the rest of the world to recognize her as a symbol of peace if she is fighting on behalf of the United States.