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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graphicisnovel View Post
    I just feel like some of these reactions are being a bit unfair to the artist. He did not conflate race and nationality, he stated them both independently. And then you yourself proceeded to give an example, and the person is not himself Brazilian - is British. So you just lumped nationality and looks into one, as well.

    Nationality does affect appearance and hair, through customs. Alfred Enoch may not necessarily be a faithful representation of black Brazilian. (In my opinion, he is not) Side note, google brazilian black and get pictures of spiders :/
    When I searched, I found these.
    images.jpeg
    21576346_817293298449284_7711378054982926336_n-819x1024.jpg
    Nayara-Justino-3.jpg

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graphicisnovel View Post
    I just feel like some of these reactions are being a bit unfair to the artist. He did not conflate race and nationality, he stated them both independently. And then you yourself proceeded to give an example, and the person is not himself Brazilian - is British. So you just lumped nationality and looks into one, as well.

    Nationality does affect appearance and hair, through customs. Alfred Enoch may not necessarily be a faithful representation of black Brazilian. (In my opinion, he is not) Side note, google brazilian black and get pictures of spiders :/
    Alfred is the representation of a white person from a western nation and an Afro Brazilian having a child. That is why he is a good real life example. Again as a stated Black people across all ethnic groups have a variety of skin tones and hair texture varitaitons. In my family alone, we all are different complexions with all different hair textures.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    When Monet 1st appeared, shw was light brown with full features & curlier hair. Starting GenX, she was tan eith smaller features before they made her darker.

    So in GenX, she flip-flopped between caramel, brown, and chocolate. Despite the hair straightening, 97% of the time she was darker with more black features. But there were a few exceptions. Her father, brother, and sisters also had dark complexions.

    Due to being on my phone, I can't really do images like I want. But I got into Monet's depiction in her thread. Post 21
    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ighlight=Monet

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    When Monet 1st appeared, shw was light brown with full features & curlier hair. Starting GenX, she was tan eith smaller features before they made her darker.

    So in GenX, she flip-flopped between caramel, brown, and chocolate. Despite the hair straightening, 97% of the time she was darker with more black features. But there were a few exceptions. Her father, brother, and sisters also had dark complexions.

    Due to being on my phone, I can't really do images like I want. But I got into Monet's depiction in her thread. Post 21
    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ighlight=Monet
    and again not one time was berber mentioned as a part of her heritage.. Jet Stream was , Monet was not..

  5. #65
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    The old Disney show Gargoyles obviousness with it. Elisa was mixed African & Native American. But looking, there's nothing black about her. Until I saw her brother I thought she was a tan white woman. lol
    I'd always thought she was Latina with an Italian-sounding last name.
    Last edited by Ambaryerno; 08-13-2019 at 08:37 AM.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

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  6. #66
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    I thought she was Latina.
    same.

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  7. #67
    Spectacular Member Leirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Brazilians do not quite see race as americans do. They have an aditional one, Pardo people (literally, brown people). The pardos are people with mixed ancestry, african, european and native american. In the States they would be seen as just black people.

  8. #68
    Fantastic Member Mutant X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleo_Rage View Post
    His comments were ignorant.

    First off, Black people have varying complexions and hair textures. You can have a Black person with two black parents who is a lot lighter than someone with a white and Black parent.
    Second, Brazilian is a nationality, not a racial category. African American is an ethnic group within the US of Black people who are the ancestors of enslaved people. The conflation between Race, ethnicity, and nationality is troubling.
    Third, a real-life example of Sunspot background would be Alfred Enoch. He has a white father and an Afro Brazillian mother.
    Fourth, did he not read Chris Clarmont's story. He was being harassed for being Black.
    This is why we need a diverse team of writers and artists in the comic book industry.
    Actually he is very accurate when he says he didn't want Roberto to look African-American because slavered tribes sent to US and the ones sent to Brazil where not exactly the same.
    Brazilian population is way more mixed too. So phenotype manifestation is not so easily predicted.
    A genetic study of brazilian population shows how tricky a phenotype judgement in Brazil is:



    96.7% African
    2.1% European
    1.1% Indigenous



    67.1% European
    31.5% African
    1.4% Indigenous

    So you can't take Harry Potter actor as a perfect example of a Brazilian mixed-race person, because it's very wide for definition.
    When it was announced Fox was looking for a Brazilian actor for New Mutants, Micael Borges was indicated, because he looked like Roberto. So once again, Mcleod was not wrong:



    And finally, Brazil is so big that we have huge diferences between regions.
    We have states like Bahia where 78% of population is not white (black, brown and others) and others like Santa Catarina where 84% of population is white.
    So the definition of what is considered black or how prejudice (that is huge problem in Brazil) manifests is very wide too.
    Roberto being harassed in a elite club (100% white usually) for having a darker skin or for have a black father reflects very well the Brazilian reality.

    It's sad that a artist like Bob McLeod who put so much effort to give distinctive and unique looking for each of the New Mutants is now suffering petty accusations.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant X View Post
    Actually he is very accurate when he says he didn't want Roberto to look African-American because slavered tribes sent to US and the ones sent to Brazil where not exactly the same.
    Brazilian population is way more mixed too. So phenotype manifestation is not so easily predicted.
    A genetic study of brazilian population shows how tricky a phenotype judgement in Brazil is:



    96.7% African
    2.1% European
    1.1% Indigenous



    67.1% European
    31.5% African
    1.4% Indigenous

    So you can't take Harry Potter actor as a perfect example of a Brazilian mixed-race person, because it's very wide for definition.
    When it was announced Fox was looking for a Brazilian actor for New Mutants, Micael Borges was indicated, because he looked like Roberto. So once again, Mcleod was not wrong:



    And finally, Brazil is so big that we have huge diferences between regions.
    We have states like Bahia where 78% of population is not white (black, brown and others) and others like Santa Catarina where 84% of population is white.
    So the definition of what is considered black or how prejudice (that is huge problem in Brazil) manifests is very wide too.
    Roberto being harassed in a elite club (100% white usually) for having a darker skin or for have a black father reflects very well the Brazilian reality.

    It's sad that a artist like Bob McLeod who put so much effort to give distinctive and unique looking for each of the New Mutants is now suffering petty accusations.
    Thank you for sharing this!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant X View Post
    Actually he is very accurate when he says he didn't want Roberto to look African-American because slavered tribes sent to US and the ones sent to Brazil where not exactly the same.
    Brazilian population is way more mixed too. So phenotype manifestation is not so easily predicted.
    A genetic study of brazilian population shows how tricky a phenotype judgement in Brazil is:



    96.7% African
    2.1% European
    1.1% Indigenous



    67.1% European
    31.5% African
    1.4% Indigenous

    So you can't take Harry Potter actor as a perfect example of a Brazilian mixed-race person, because it's very wide for definition.
    When it was announced Fox was looking for a Brazilian actor for New Mutants, Micael Borges was indicated, because he looked like Roberto. So once again, Mcleod was not wrong:



    And finally, Brazil is so big that we have huge diferences between regions.
    We have states like Bahia where 78% of population is not white (black, brown and others) and others like Santa Catarina where 84% of population is white.
    So the definition of what is considered black or how prejudice (that is huge problem in Brazil) manifests is very wide too.
    Roberto being harassed in a elite club (100% white usually) for having a darker skin or for have a black father reflects very well the Brazilian reality.

    It's sad that a artist like Bob McLeod who put so much effort to give distinctive and unique looking for each of the New Mutants is now suffering petty accusations.
    Its not petty. Its asking him to do better. My thing is this.. The Black disapora is a thing. Black people are connected via chattel slavery from Africa to the Caribbean to both North and South America. Black people globally are connected regardless of what a white man thinks. And while Brazil has an unqiue history and people with very interesting looks. Lets not act like everyone African American looks exactly the same in the US. We also come in a variety of shades,colors, body types and hair textures. Thats all I am trying to say that there is not one uniform "African American" look. Hell the singer Ginuwine looks what I imagined an adult roberto would look like.. I also think it's telling that people would say Alfred enoch who has a Brazilian mother and speaks Portuguese is not Brazilian enough. Makes me wonder is it due to his coarse and beautifully kinky hair. And trust me, Black folk in America are aware of the antiblack racism in Brazil. We are in solidarity with Marielle Franco.

  11. #71
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graphicisnovel View Post
    This is a confusing comment...are you denying a Brazilian person can have wavy hair?

    All the man said was he wanted to make him distinct from designs of the time. Hello from Brazil, btw
    nah i wasn't saying that sorry for clunky sentence....just disappointed McLeod thought Bobby didn't look African American despite his "wavy hair"


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cochese View Post
    I donít think itís that controversial. He said Roberto shouldnít just look African-American, which of course he isnít cos heís Brazilian. Iím sure the intent was that heíd have dark skin with wavy hair to suggest his mixed heritage.
    buuut Dark skin and "wavy hair" isn't solely a mixed Brazilian feature. I shudder to think what he woulda came up had Bobby started out explicitly Black Brazilian
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    I mean in the X-franchise. Outside of the X-Office, things seemed to be handled better, still flawed but better. There's more characters of color outside of the X-Office too.

    But as stated, men vs. women are different. You'll see a black man depicted with full features & kinky hair before a woman. And that's because women are valued more for their looks and sex appeal to the male audience. So it's imperative they not be "too black" because it's not a style most straight white males will find attractive.

    The old Disney show Gargoyles obviousness with it. Elisa was mixed African & Native American. But looking, there's nothing black about her. Until I saw her brother I thought she was a tan white woman. lol


    But then you see her brother.


    Sunspot is a rare male example though. Monet is more typical.

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...ButNotTooBlack
    Duuuude my lil brother and I were so confused/excited when we saw Elisa's brother...we were like "Ohhhh Goliath is down with the interspecies/racial(?)! swirl!!!??!
    lol
    *weird we assigned Goliath a race.... untill that one episode they turned human *

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleo_Rage View Post
    His comments were ignorant.

    First off, Black people have varying complexions and hair textures. You can have a Black person with two black parents who is a lot lighter than someone with a white and Black parent.
    Second, Brazilian is a nationality, not a racial category. African American is an ethnic group within the US of Black people who are the ancestors of enslaved people. The conflation between Race, ethnicity, and nationality is troubling.
    Third, a real-life example of Sunspot background would be Alfred Enoch. He has a white father and an Afro Brazillian mother.
    Fourth, did he not read Chris Clarmont's story. He was being harassed for being Black.
    This is why we need a diverse team of writers and artists in the comic book industry.
    all this and everything
    Last edited by BroHomo; 08-17-2019 at 02:51 AM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleo_Rage View Post
    Alfred is the representation of a white person from a western nation and an Afro Brazilian having a child. That is why he is a good real life example. Again as a stated Black people across all ethnic groups have a variety of skin tones and hair texture varitaitons. In my family alone, we all are different complexions with all different hair textures.
    Once, a Brazilian 'black' woman said to me she had a sister who had a skin as 'white' as me.
    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    Once, a Brazilian 'black' woman said to me she had a sister who had a skin as 'white' as me.
    and did she?

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    weird we assigned Goliath a race.... untill that one episode they turned human *
    And adding to that. Even though Goliath is voiced by a black man, his human form is a tan Native American man. lol And her very black brother was hotheaded, only recurred once in a while, then got turned into a panther.

  15. #75
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    And adding to that. Even though Goliath is voiced by a black man, his human form is a tan Native American man. lol And her very black brother was hotheaded, only recurred once in a while, then got turned into a panther.
    lol yuuuup but i liked how they told African and NA myths alongside the eurocentric ones....Did Derek not eventual turn into a gargoyle himself and lead those scabies covered clones?

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