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  1. #106
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Yes, but you’re talking about real world humans. Black Americans were/are often forced to participate in white institutions, have their art and their bodies exploited and appropriated by whites. Mutants are a fictional race with godlike powers. They have the option to create their own government and culture separate from humans like we’re seeing with Hixmen. X-Men in 2019 should be radical and extremist. An existential threat to the human status quo. None of that ‘Hey man, let’s just get along and stuff because we’re all the same!’.
    Also an interesting point, considering how the opposition towards mutants goes beyond skin color and the like, because there's also that factor that they have these powers, some of which could be capable of destroying entire cities, or even worse, the whole world, which, I'm sure is reasonable enough to say, doesn't completely resemble real life from that perspective. There's also the fact that, however well-intentioned, mutants such as Magneto have caused more damage than what was reasonable in order to get his point across. If we're talking on the subject of well-intentioned groups taking things too far, then what should mutants like Magneto and his Brotherhood of Mutants be compared to? Black people like Malcolm X, which is a comparison I've heard repeatedly, or other groups entirely, like Antifa?
    Last edited by Electricmastro; 08-18-2019 at 08:12 PM.

  2. #107
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Also an interesting point, considering how the opposition towards mutants goes beyond skin color and the like, because there's also that factor that they have these powers, some of which could be capable of destroying entire cities, or even worse, the whole world, which, I'm sure is reasonable enough to say, doesn't completely resemble real life from that perspective. There's also the fact that, however well-intentioned, mutants such as Magneto have caused more damage than what was reasonable in order to get his point across. If we're talking on the subject of well-intentioned groups taking things to far, then what should mutants like Magneto and his Brotherhood of Mutants be compared to? Black people like Malcolm X, which is a comparison I've heard repeatedly, or other groups entirely, like Antifa?
    The thing is, neither Malcolm X nor "Antifa" were terrorists hellbent on destroying society to get their points across. At worst, their aggression was (and is) a counterreaction to the violence already exhibited by bigots intent on preserving their sociopolitical, economic, and/or cultural power and enabled by oppressive institutions and power structures skewed in favor of the bigots. On the other hand, the likes of Magneto and various incarnations of the Brotherhood and later the Acolytes have had destroying human society, or at least toppling human power structures, as a major goal because of the oppression said society and power structures have inflicted on mutants, and have been unafraid, if not outright uncaring, of collateral damage, since in their minds, all humans are complicit with mutant oppression. Magneto, however sympathetically we might view him here in the fandom because of what he's been through and how humanity, particularly human authorities, continues to treat mutants, is a terrorist, unlike Malcolm X then or "Antifa" now.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  3. #108
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Magneto, however sympathetically we might view him here in the fandom because of what he's been through and how humanity, particularly human authorities, continues to treat mutants, is a terrorist
    Yep, "the ends justifying the means" can very much be a dangerous game.


  4. #109
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Yep, "the ends justifying the means" can very much be a dangerous game.

    When it comes to basic human rights, there can never and should never be compromise.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  5. #110
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    When it comes to basic human rights, there can never and should never be compromise.
    Of course human rights, even the most basic ones, are valuable. That should go without saying. That said though, I suppose how much one should justify evil means, assuming one would go that far, to help defend said human rights is another matter, which I imagine is the sort of matter that will be debated endlessly with no clear resolution in sight.
    Last edited by Electricmastro; 08-18-2019 at 08:22 PM.

  6. #111
    Mighty Member uebersoldat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    The thing is, neither Malcolm X nor "Antifa" were terrorists hellbent on destroying society to get their points across. At worst, their aggression was (and is) a counterreaction to the violence already exhibited by bigots intent on preserving their sociopolitical, economic, and/or cultural power and enabled by oppressive institutions and power structures skewed in favor of the bigots. On the other hand, the likes of Magneto and various incarnations of the Brotherhood and later the Acolytes have had destroying human society, or at least toppling human power structures, as a major goal because of the oppression said society and power structures have inflicted on mutants, and have been unafraid, if not outright uncaring, of collateral damage, since in their minds, all humans are complicit with mutant oppression. Magneto, however sympathetically we might view him here in the fandom because of what he's been through and how humanity, particularly human authorities, continues to treat mutants, is a terrorist, unlike Malcolm X then or "Antifa" now.
    Antifa apologetics is extremely offensive. They are thugs, vandals and sow seeds of hatred.
    Last edited by uebersoldat; 08-18-2019 at 08:25 PM.

  7. #112
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Of course human rights, even the most basic ones, are valuable. That should go without saying. That said though, I suppose how much one should justify evil means, assuming one would go that far, to help defend said human rights is another matter, which I imagine will be debated endlessly with no clear resolution in sight.
    Well, there a pretty decent analogue in one of the most controversial moments in X-history: Scott authorizing a kill squad to wipe out the Purifiers, Friends of Humanity, and Reavers who were massacring the remaining mutants. Compassion wasn't going to stop the suicide bombers. Tolerance wasn't going to halt their bullets. Pacifism wasn't going to save anyone. Everyone has their opinion of that event.

    Mine is simple: Scott did the right thing. When enemies are being told that God himself has ordained that this slaughter must happen to get into Heaven, as Reverend Stryker was telling the FoH and Purifiers, there is no compromising at that point.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  8. #113
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uebersoldat View Post
    It's pretty dangerous to be painting up groups like antifa as some sort of noble thing. It's very much NOT.
    Why? Antifa exclusively fights with White Supremacists, anti-Semitics, and people that advocate for ethnic cleansing. That's not a bad thing. We had a whole war about that.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  9. #114
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Well, there a pretty decent analogue in one of the most controversial moments in X-history: Scott authorizing a kill squad to wipe out the Purifiers, Friends of Humanity, and Reavers who were massacring the remaining mutants. Compassion wasn't going to stop the suicide bombers. Tolerance wasn't going to halt their bullets. Pacifism wasn't going to save anyone. Everyone has their opinion of that event.

    Mine is simple: Scott did the right thing. When enemies are being told that God himself has ordained that this slaughter must happen to get into Heaven, as Reverend Stryker was telling the FoH and Purifiers, there is no compromising at that point.
    I'd say self-defense and self-preservation are always valid, assuming that's how the writers were framing it, and I'd suppose it depends what approach one takes with compassion, and tolerance, and pacifism, and with that said though, I'd also say that Professor X said the right thing when he said, "whatever noble ends we seek do not justify evil means."

  10. #115
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Yep, "the ends justifying the means" can very much be a dangerous game.

    Xavier is comparing himself to Hitler for preventing Spider-Man from stopping them. This scan is showing that respectability politics probably the worse game to play out of the two.

  11. #116
    Bad Guy CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Yep, "the ends justifying the means" can very much be a dangerous game.

    Is this a joke?

  12. #117
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Why? Antifa exclusively fights with White Supremacists, anti-Semitics, and people that advocate for ethnic cleansing. That's not a bad thing. We had a whole war about that.
    Too bad no one told the members at their rallies that.
    "Cable was right!"

  13. #118

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    Antifa is made up of people...(just like every other group) when they get to make judgement calls on who to punch or beat with sticks they are going to make mistakes...
    In the real world i would be BOTH pro registration and Pro mutant rights. Xavier and Trask were both right.

  14. #119
    Mighty Member uebersoldat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Why? Antifa exclusively fights with White Supremacists, anti-Semitics, and people that advocate for ethnic cleansing. That's not a bad thing. We had a whole war about that.
    I hope you do some research and reconsider your stance here using critical thinking and wisdom...for a better future for all of us.

  15. #120
    Fantastic Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
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    I’m not always good at telling when people are being ironic, so - this is irony, right?

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