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  1. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by uebersoldat View Post
    You can't mention El Paso without also admitting the Dayton mass shooter associated himself with antifa. CNN: "In addition, a Twitter account that appears to belong to Betts retweeted extreme left-wing and anti-police posts, as well as tweets supporting Antifa, or anti-fascist, protesters."

    You have just proven my point btw.

    Sadly things will just continue to escalate and people right here in the open condone the actions of an increasingly violent group of thugs because they claim to be fighting against evil. In reality they are just angry mobs and evil begets evil.

    EDIT: To illustrate a bit more comic-focused - I see it as the difference between modern extremist Cyclops and what he was willing to do vs the peaceful dream Xavier had before they shredded his credibility later on. I'm firmly with Xavier's dream here. Violence has no place in a modern society.
    I'm going to note that fascist/"alt right" violence and threat of it has been going on for far, far, far longer than people tend to acknowledge. The Giffords shooting. The armed standoffs at Bundy ranch and Malheur refuge - and shootings committed by people at were at Bundy ranch. These things have been happening since not long after Obama entered office, and ultimately, the things seen with Antifa (the real things - not the BS spewed by fascists and "alt right" to justify their actions) are a response to these behaviors. Antifa would not exist if the reason for their existence did not exist. It's in the name.

    I leave you with that.
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  2. #152
    Mighty Member
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    I think the key is little variety, ebb and flow some progress, some not. Endless extinction events are both illogical and boring.

    Also, pacifism get used to describe Xavier a lot on this board and...’that word does not mean what you think it means.’

  3. #153
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    I think the key is little variety, ebb and flow some progress, some not. Endless extinction events are both illogical and boring.

    Also, pacifism get used to describe Xavier a lot on this board and...’that word does not mean what you think it means.’
    Pacifism. Noun.

    "The belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means."

    Definition from the Oxford Dictionary.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  4. #154
    Mighty Member TheDeadSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    While I like the idea in theory, the issue is that the X-Men are a perpetually ongoing series. They cannot gain equality, or the series wouldn't need to exist. So it hurts knowing that whatever positive steps are made will be undone by the next writer setting up mutantkind on the brink of annihilation to tell their story.
    By all means, I agree with the issue. It's unfortunate to think that the X-men will never reach their goal, but the occasional story would do some good in the long run. Every now and then a "God Loves Man Kills" type of story can be dropped as a mini or short story arc. The world isn't black and white, and neither are the X-men. But the occasional drop of hope could do some good.
    "I've done abominable things. I don't ask for forgiveness. I don't deserve it. I'm happy to spend what remains of my life paying for my crimes. But I'd do it all again."
    -Cyclops
    "Life sucks sometimes...but it's always worth living."
    -Spider-man
    "Do not mistake a desire to avoid violence with an ability to deal with it."
    -Wonder Woman

  5. #155
    Bad Guy CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Yeah, Reverend Stryker was just trying to debate Kitty when he tried to put a bullet in her brain. X-Men wouldn't let him shoot her. #TypicalIntolerantLeft

    Also, that Darli Dagger Avy hurts me as a Shiki main.
    Shiki main? My condolences.

    She's so weeeeird in this game.

  6. #156
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    I think the key is little variety, ebb and flow some progress, some not. Endless extinction events are both illogical and boring.

    Also, pacifism get used to describe Xavier a lot on this board and...’that word does not mean what you think it means.’
    Yeah, Xavier was never a pacifist, even he knew that violence was necesary to an extent. I think that he was trying to find a middle point, but he never reach it.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
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  7. #157
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    Shiki main? My condolences.

    She's so weeeeird in this game.
    Personality or control wise? Cause her entire backstory is... mostly awful. She's a big bottle of terrible anti-female tropes rolled into one unfortunate package.

    Her play style is fine, especially with the new buffs.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  8. #158
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Yeah, Xavier was never a pacifist, even he knew that violence was necesary to an extent. I think that he was trying to find a middle point, but he never reach it.
    "You are the living embodiment of evil in this world. For the sake of all things that breathe you must be utterly destroyed."

    Charles Xavier to Master Mold.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  9. #159
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    "You are the living embodiment of evil in this world. For the sake of all things that breathe you must be utterly destroyed."

    Charles Xavier to Master Mold.
    I'm pretty sure that he say something among those lines to Shadow King in their first encounter.

    Also in answer to the main problem, yes the X-Men would never resolve their main mission, but Marvel should really find a more balanced way to portray the conflict, otherwise this whole thing is just going to make audiences more apathetic.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  10. #160
    Bad Guy CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Personality or control wise? Cause her entire backstory is... mostly awful. She's a big bottle of terrible anti-female tropes rolled into one unfortunate package.

    Her play style is fine, especially with the new buffs.
    Her playstyle. It never meshed with me in this game. This samsho is already footsie heavy, but she took it to the next level imo.

  11. #161
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uebersoldat View Post
    You can't mention El Paso without also admitting the Dayton mass shooter associated himself with antifa. CNN: "In addition, a Twitter account that appears to belong to Betts retweeted extreme left-wing and anti-police posts, as well as tweets supporting Antifa, or anti-fascist, protesters."

    You have just proven my point btw.

    Sadly things will just continue to escalate and people right here in the open condone the actions of an increasingly violent group of thugs because they claim to be fighting against evil. In reality they are just angry mobs and evil begets evil.

    EDIT: To illustrate a bit more comic-focused - I see it as the difference between modern extremist Cyclops and what he was willing to do vs the peaceful dream Xavier had before they shredded his credibility later on. I'm firmly with Xavier's dream here. Violence has no place in a modern society.
    This is a false equivalence. The El Paso shooter killed people because of his right wing beliefs. He said so in his manifesto. By contrast, there is no evidence the Dayton shooter's political beliefs were the reason for his killing. It would be like blaming Christianity because someone who went to church killed his wife for reasons completely unrelated to his Christianity.

    A better example would be the individual who shot up the Republican softball game as that was an actual attack motivated by left wing politics. However, it is still disingenuous to pretend that the level of left wing murderous attacks are on par with the level of right wing murderous attacks and there is no evidence that Antifa supports left wing murderers. There is plenty of evidence that right wing nuts actually support the terrorist attacks of guys like Dylan Roof and the El Paso shooter.

    I agree violence has no place in a modern society but you're trying to morally equate right wing violence with left wing violence in the US is disingenuous. All the statistical data is such that right wing violence and terrorism is far more prevalent than left wing violence. Both are wrong but your focus on the lesser of the two evils suggests you are extremely biased regarding this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    So if violence was no purpose, then Xavier was a hypocrite for having the X-Men fight (WITH VIOLENCE) Magneto. Every time Wolverine stabbed some Purifier, it made Charles a hypocrite. Every time Cyclops blasted a Reaver, it made Charles a hypocrite. Every time Colossus punched a Friend of Humanity, it made Charles a hypocrite.

    Know what would have happened if the X-Men chose pacifism? They would be completely and utterly annihilated.
    Yeah it is strange as the poster seems confused. Xavier's dream was not non-violent. He simply engaged in violence but tried to stop short of outright murder. Oddly enough that is what Antifa does. Meanwhile, right wing violence routinely escalates to murder much like Magneto. This is not to say Antifa is like some noble group as like Xavier there is some hypocrisy in their message and use of violence. However, the comparison of non-lethal violence to the lethal violence and outright genocide that right wing extremists preach is just insincere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant X View Post
    Real life is not a comic book where you have good guys and bad guys in black and white.
    Everybody see themselves and the group they are part as the good and rightful side.

    We can't use relativism for violence or ignore the means to justify the ends. Terrible things have been done for "good causes'.
    I think one can say objectively speaking that White Supremacy is in fact bad so in that regard real life is in fact like the comics. Hitler thought he was part of the good and rightful side as well. That doesn't make his ideology any less evil. In a modern society, it has been determined by most developed nations that racism, antisemtism, and the desire to kill people on the basis of race, religion, nationality, etc. is objectively bad.
    Last edited by remydat; 08-20-2019 at 07:24 AM.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  12. #162
    Fantastic Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
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    Has the Overton window really shifted so far over there that white nationalism now represents the mainstream, and protestors against that are dangerous radicals? Or is it a clever joke based on all those times when the X-Men saved a town from a super villain attack, but the citizens still blame the destruction on the X-Men?

  13. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cochese View Post
    Has the Overton window really shifted so far over there that white nationalism now represents the mainstream, and protestors against that are dangerous radicals? Or is it a clever joke based on all those times when the X-Men saved a town from a super villain attack, but the citizens still blame the destruction on the X-Men?
    I don't think the Overton window has shifted that far yet, but it's getting there as media and politicians repeatedly fold to BS from fascists, white supremacists and other bad actors. Which is in turn why those groups are so afraid of The Squad, Antifa, etc. It's the public pushing back against bad actor attempts to exploit civility as a means of staying in a position where they can hurt people.
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  14. #164
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cochese View Post
    Has the Overton window really shifted so far over there that white nationalism now represents the mainstream, and protestors against that are dangerous radicals? Or is it a clever joke based on all those times when the X-Men saved a town from a super villain attack, but the citizens still blame the destruction on the X-Men?
    It’s probably debatable but for me, it’s definitely shifted. Republicans can genuinely go on a stage for Democratic Debates, call themselves Democrats/leftists, and no one bats an eye.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Pacifism. Noun.

    "The belief that any violence, including war, is unjustifiable under any circumstances, and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means."

    Definition from the Oxford Dictionary.
    ...And Xavier has never been a pacifist.

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