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  1. #166
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    The bigotry of modern times is the comedification of identity. It's the becoming of an agent of erasure. It's the sign up.

    To be right, to be happy, to be cured, to be fixed, to be identified and treated, to be liked, to be reposted from...to be ad space...to be had...to be...

    X is the not to be. And the isn't.

    IS as Isn't.

    It doesn't answer.

    X is a silent x

    Nomadism. The X-Men should be eXiles.

    The X-Men are an asylum for the maladjusted, the undigested, the chewed and spewed, the insane, the survivors of a sunken ship, that was going somewhere...our...wasn't it...but we didn't get there...and asylum means sanctuary.

    The X-Men have frequently been, ironically, reduced to a glossary of terms for the-going-look-of-a-brand-new-you identity, this is commodification the assimilation of a potential for a self with the set price and code of a preselected, rather than the failure to perform, the X, the wrong, the not the right answer...


    This X place, it's a world after all, a world with a treasure (there is a future) X means here, right here, there on a map, a secret map, yours and you..where it's hid and safe...over there...here on the spot...a place where it happened or could...dig here...dig it?...X means destination...

    The refusal to choose identity, is the fight, but it's also the identity...even alone...even apart from...not to be found...not one from the DSM 5 or rack...not a scrolling option.

    It's a silent 'x' - a placeholder...like language...the possible word for: home

    the queer knowing that "I know I've been here before" in the middle of nowhere...at the beginning and the end...remember?

    It's not good for people to 'world' build with characters. Language, however, which is important...sometimes requires, or eventually becomes...figures and shapes in space.
    Last edited by sungila; 08-22-2019 at 12:51 AM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  2. #167
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    omg SUNGILA I MISSED YOU!!!!!!!

  3. #168
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    sungila bacc
    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

  4. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    It's not good for people to 'world' build with characters. Language, however, which is important...sometimes requires, or eventually becomes...figures and shapes in space.
    Of all the things said in your post, this part stands out for me the most as it's excellent food for thought for me. World-building can lose sight of who characters are, and what they would or should be doing, during the process of trying to make various characters fit into a grand scheme. Or leaving them out cause they're too difficult to make fit the scheme. Characters-as-language is also a new way of looking at the situation for me. Which is something I think people have always done, just not with the language framework. It's a good way of considering if certain parts of a "sentence" are missing or being improperly used. Further reminds of discussions of ambiguity in graphical depiction, how that operates as visual language due to ambiguity of facial features (e.g. ) being easier for someone to personally connect with than a thoroughly detailed face. I think the example I saw of that was how the FF7 Cloud character model running around town can be easier to connect with than the more detailed FMV Cloud.

    Thanks for the new perspective, sungila.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

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  5. #170
    Incredible Member ermac's Avatar
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    Have we ever had an analogy to "pink money" on the x-titles?

  6. #171
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ermac View Post
    Have we ever had an analogy to "pink money" on the x-titles?
    Well, Charles keeps paying for all those mansion refurbs and new blackbirds despite not even apparently having tenure anywhere.

  7. #172
    Once And Future BAMF Hellion's Avatar
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    How should X-men reflect the bigotry of modern times?

    Their greatest adversary should be Twitter.
    MAGNETO was right,TONY was right, VARYS was right.

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  8. #173
    The Best There Is Wolverine12's Avatar
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    I understand the connection is easy to make given the topic of this thread, but let's not let it turn into a political debate of right v left. Definitely not the place for that.
    You brought back Wolverine

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  9. #174
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    omg SUNGILA I MISSED YOU!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    sungila bacc


    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    Of all the things said in your post, this part stands out for me the most as it's excellent food for thought for me. World-building can lose sight of who characters are, and what they would or should be doing, during the process of trying to make various characters fit into a grand scheme. Or leaving them out cause they're too difficult to make fit the scheme. Characters-as-language is also a new way of looking at the situation for me. Which is something I think people have always done, just not with the language framework. It's a good way of considering if certain parts of a "sentence" are missing or being improperly used. Further reminds of discussions of ambiguity in graphical depiction, how that operates as visual language due to ambiguity of facial features (e.g. ) being easier for someone to personally connect with than a thoroughly detailed face. I think the example I saw of that was how the FF7 Cloud character model running around town can be easier to connect with than the more detailed FMV Cloud.

    Thanks for the new perspective, sungila.
    Wow Salarta. Thank you. I know nothing of gaming or RPGing but your discussion of the use of ambiguity in 'visual language' is really interesting. I love the language of liminality, the permeability of certain images for instance...the oddness of words (or characters or character action or character's gestures) that don't fit or seem to go against the typical fit...something weir...like: quiet and smashed. The transport of the image of bell (for instance) maybe in a snowfield...and then somebody walking through...and somebody else seated by a frozen pool...the two not connected...and don't meet.

    Anyway, as far as combating bigotry...ambiguity and the 'passing' queerness of one's unidentifiable...unassimilated ritual of secret rebecoming...the ceremony of one's own silence...it's so often, extracted and examined or encouraged to be blogged...there's a heroism in 'not knowing' what you're all about...and it's a powerful thing to be an enigma...it really is...to ask a really good question...to actually be one...that's so important.

    I really believe that the X-Men are in a difficult moment if the comics aren't able to offer space...and room...and fullness...whole panels of abstract thought...or Illyana staring at a wall for no reason...but long enough to feel what she's saying in that gesture. But maybe not knowing...and to feel the pressure of the world and her code name and team status all demanding a YES...to a call...and a word that has nothing to say...or claim...and if anything NO! Not even limbo. just No...but that's only in response to...

    Bigotry asks rhetorical questions that are really demands that you comply, that you affirm...that you say YES and then keep that forced word. And image. And all that.

    Ambiguity should be sacred.
    Last edited by sungila; 08-22-2019 at 01:16 AM.
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
    ― Miguel de Cervantes Don Quixote

  10. #175
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    We have an analogy already in PoX #3 that again hints at the Big Data themes in Hickman’s new take.

    I think it is too ‘on topic’ to put in spoiler tags, so be aware this is the latest issue:




    At the Temple of Concordance, of the Church of Ascendancy, the priest is offering an injection of technology, in a way that looks very much like the TO-Virus. BUT it is not providing solace or comfort, there is no earthly comfort in this. Instead they are only being offered the chance to reflect on how they will never reach the perfection of the machines, and yet never be truly human again.

    There is an element of body horror here, but the analogy to the way we have allowed social media to change us and our view of ourselves is also present.

    To fit in and conform to the new order, to evolve one must embrace this new view. But, it is a view that contains a false promise. A hollow ascendancy. To plug in is to allow ourselves to be part of Big Data.

    As a member of a social media platform we become something that can now be analysed, measured, categorised and ultimately manipulated. We become drones without even realising that someone is holding the remote. Everything that we hold precious is just a variable, our very identity is used against us, which ultimately will not fulfill us because the manipulation comes in the form of a promise that never transpires. It’s a digital illusion of freedom. A false heaven.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-22-2019 at 02:37 AM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  11. #176
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    We have an analogy already in PoX #3 that again hints at the Big Data themes in Hickman’s new take.

    I think it is too ‘on topic’ to put in spoiler tags, so be aware this is the latest issue:




    At the Temple of Concordance, of the Church of Ascendancy, the priest is offering an injection of technology, in a way that looks very much like the TO-Virus. BUT it is not providing solace or comfort, there is no earthly comfort in this. Instead they are only being offered the chance to reflect on how they will never reach the perfection of the machines, and yet never be truly human again.

    There is an element of body horror here, but the analogy to the way we have allowed social media to change us and our view of ourselves is also present.

    To fit in and conform to the new order, to evolve one must embrace this new view. But, it is a view that contains a false promise. A hollow ascendancy. To plug in is to allow ourselves to be part of Big Data.

    As a member of a social media platform we become something that can now be analysed, measured, categorised and ultimately manipulated. We become drones without even realising that someone is holding the remote. Everything that we hold precious is just a variable, our very identity is used against us, which ultimately will not fulfill us because the manipulation comes in the form of a promise that never transpires. It’s a digital illusion of freedom. A false heaven.
    wouldn't the allusion you're referring to be an example of anti bigotry Every individual regardless of race, culture, wealth, sexuality, body function, etc reduced to Data and personalized ads?

  12. #177
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Random thought: Given how there, at least last I checked, over one billion people in China and over one billion people in India, if there were to theoretically be an X-Men team that was filled with many mutants originating from China and India, as well as other highly populated countries, would that then mean there would be a considerable percentage of the world that wouldn't discriminate/hate/attack against the X-Men, or would it not matter to the many Chinese and Indian people of Earth-616?

  13. #178
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Random thought: Given how there, at least last I checked, over one billion people in China and over one billion people in India, if there were to theoretically be an X-Men team that was filled with many mutants originating from China and India, as well as other highly populated countries, would that then mean there would be a considerable percentage of the world that wouldn't discriminate/hate/attack against the X-Men, or would it not matter to the many Chinese and Indian people of Earth-616?
    a considerable percentage of the world don't hate/attack the X-Men. they'd never survive if that were true. Why would Being a Mutant matter to White people and not Chinese nor Indian or any other race?

  14. #179

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    I'm just now re-checking this thread, so sorry for my lateness.

    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    Anyway, as far as combating bigotry...ambiguity and the 'passing' queerness of one's unidentifiable...unassimilated ritual of secret rebecoming...the ceremony of one's own silence...it's so often, extracted and examined or encouraged to be blogged...there's a heroism in 'not knowing' what you're all about...and it's a powerful thing to be an enigma...it really is...to ask a really good question...to actually be one...that's so important.
    I agree with this greatly. Sometimes sharing is useful, and sometimes it's not. The useful sharing helps people in similar situations not feel alone... but what if it's something so unique that nobody else could understand? That even the act of explaining it can make it seem like something it's not? Then there's the worry of what if sharing makes things worse, because if you manage to use language to get it across, it may be too intense.

    At the same time, the culture among straight cis white people (generally men) seems to be one of expecting to be in on everything. That if something isn't shared, that's somehow a personal insult (I say this as a straight cis white man myself). Like being "owed" the full story even when the person who can give it isn't comfortable because it's too personal. I'm not 100% sure if this is all matching what you meant, but it's at least where I felt like going from what you posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    I really believe that the X-Men are in a difficult moment if the comics aren't able to offer space...and room...and fullness...whole panels of abstract thought...or Illyana staring at a wall for no reason...but long enough to feel what she's saying in that gesture. But maybe not knowing...and to feel the pressure of the world and her code name and team status all demanding a YES...to a call...and a word that has nothing to say...or claim...and if anything NO! Not even limbo. just No...but that's only in response to...

    Bigotry asks rhetorical questions that are really demands that you comply, that you affirm...that you say YES and then keep that forced word. And image. And all that.

    Ambiguity should be sacred.
    Yes, and in fact that's one of the beautiful strengths of the comic book medium. I believe Alan Moore's (no source; just what I think I remember) previously talked about how comic books allow you to read something, linger on it as long as you want and need, process it, flip back and forth. Whereas film just pushes you through. You have to commit yourself to pausing, and jumping back to previous points is difficult.

    There's so much meaning in things that are taken for granted and presumed to not mean anything. Rosa Farrell from FF4 used to be mostly viewed as a "useless damsel in distress." It wasn't until people started to understand various things that happened "in the gaps" (out of direct view) with her that they began to understand how great she really was and is. So much of story is what's not said, or what could've been said instead but wasn't, and it's too easy for people to ignore that and focus only on what's said.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

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  15. #180
    Astonishing Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    a considerable percentage of the world don't hate/attack the X-Men. they'd never survive if that were true.?
    That's interesting. Because others were talking to me implying that like 95% of the world hates them, reasoning that it's more so the case now compared to the 1960s-1980s.

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