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  1. #91
    Mutant Midnighter NewMutant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I like this post.

    The problem with the X-Men is like someone said, not enough diversity in a comic that is supposed to promote diversity. Pretty much the same line-up for last 30 plus years.

    Also, there is no balance. It seems every human on the planet hates mutants. Where are the human friends and supporters? There used to be human friends and supporters in the X-Men.

    Now the X-Men are about mutants, all the humans who hate them and the robot they build to kill them. No tolerance.

    That was me. And you are my new CBR BFF. I 100% agree we need more allies. The only prominent one was Moira and now shes a mutant.
    I'm a fighter. I fight for normal people. But I'll never be one. I'm not a hero. Some people can't handle that.

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  2. #92
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I like this post.

    The problem with the X-Men is like someone said, not enough diversity in a comic that is supposed to promote diversity. Pretty much the same line-up for last 30 plus years.

    Also, there is no balance. It seems every human on the planet hates mutants. Where are the human friends and supporters? There used to be human friends and supporters in the X-Men.

    Now the X-Men are about mutants, all the humans who hate them and the robot they build to kill them. No tolerance.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMutant View Post
    That was me. And you are my new CBR BFF. I 100% agree we need more allies. The only prominent one was Moira and now shes a mutant.
    Speaking of allies, what about the non-mutant superhumans who could very well be next on the chopping block of human hatred as soon as the mutants have been "dealt with"? I'll keep saying this till I'm blue in the face, but Civil War and the Superhuman Registration Act, as well as the personal experiences of the likes of Hulk and Spider-Man, showed that it wouldn't take much for "normal humans" to turn against everyone and anyone with powers, not just those whose powers came from an X-gene. Even in Days of Future Past, the Sentinels wiped out non-mutant superheroes along with the X-Men, and Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four privately admitted in one comic that the reason for the costumes and outlandish superhero names was to turn them into beloved celebrities so they wouldn't be scorned and hunted by the public and the authorities as dangerous freaks (like the X-Men were). With that in mind, non-mutant superheroes should be more inclined to side with mutants facing persecution from human society and governments rather than either turning a blind eye to or even helping prop up a system that will more than likely turn against them as well in the end.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  3. #93
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewMutant View Post
    That was me. And you are my new CBR BFF. I 100% agree we need more allies. The only prominent one was Moira and now shes a mutant.
    Hello CBR BFF!!!

    They used to Have Moira, Tom Corsi, Charlotte Jones, Stevie(can't remember her last name) and a few others whose names I can't recall.

    They were friends with the FF and Avengers.

    How can mutants truly exist in a world that "hates and fears them" while they just accept all of the other non-mutant heroes.

    The logic makes it hard to justify.

  4. #94
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Speaking of allies, what about the non-mutant superhumans who could very well be next on the chopping block of human hatred as soon as the mutants have been "dealt with"? I'll keep saying this till I'm blue in the face, but Civil War and the Superhuman Registration Act, as well as the personal experiences of the likes of Hulk and Spider-Man, showed that it wouldn't take much for "normal humans" to turn against everyone and anyone with powers, not just those whose powers came from an X-gene. Even in Days of Future Past, the Sentinels wiped out non-mutant superheroes along with the X-Men, and Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four privately admitted in one comic that the reason for the costumes and outlandish superhero names was to turn them into beloved celebrities so they wouldn't be scorned and hunted by the public and the authorities as dangerous freaks (like the X-Men were). With that in mind, non-mutant superheroes should be more inclined to side with mutants facing persecution from human society and governments rather than either turning a blind eye to or even helping prop up a system that will more than likely turn against them as well in the end.
    You'd think that there would be more solidarity among the super-human community(heroes anyway).

    I guess only the X-Men/mutants must be oppressed, isolated hated and hunted.

    Gets pretty boring after awhile.

  5. #95
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I like this post.

    The problem with the X-Men is like someone said, not enough diversity in a comic that is supposed to promote diversity. Pretty much the same line-up for last 30 plus years.

    Also, there is no balance. It seems every human on the planet hates mutants. Where are the human friends and supporters? There used to be human friends and supporters in the X-Men.

    Now the X-Men are about mutants, all the humans who hate them and the robot they build to kill them. No tolerance.

    Thanks for understanding. For some reason, when I had previously mentioned the idea of there being more complexities, preferably more interesting ones, in the human/mutant relations, such as a few more allies, people negatively responded to me as if I was attempting to deny that there's bigotry in the world, even though I had spelled out that that wasn't my intention at all. Like you mentioned, what can help showcase diversity isn't only in the differences in skin color, but also diversity of opinion, thought, etc., and what solutions can be put in place, not to necessarily eliminate all bigotry in the world, since that's a really tall order that has yet to be fully solved, but what can help bring communities closer together towards a better future regardless. I'm sure that, at least to a point and depending on the writer, that sort of aspect does have a place in the X-Men series, not to mention, interesting stories.
    Last edited by Electricmastro; 08-14-2019 at 04:13 PM.

  6. #96
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    Thanks for understanding. For some reason, when I had previously mentioned the idea of there being more complexities, preferably more interesting ones, in the human/mutant relations, such as a few more allies, people negatively responded to me as if I was attempting to deny that there's bigotry in the world, even though I had spelled out that that wasn't my intention at all. Like you mentioned, what can help showcase diversity isn't only in the differences in skin color, but also diversity of opinion, thought, etc., and what solutions can be put in place, not to necessarily eliminate all bigotry in the world, since that's a really tall order that has yet to be fully solved, but what can help bring communities closer together towards a better future regardless.
    True. Diversity should encompass everything, even differences of opinion.

    In my life, I've met people I agreed with and disagreed with and I usually find myself when I make a friendship with someone who I didn't think I had anything in common with until we found something we had in common.

    And it's usually because we're comic and sci-fi geeks.

    And sports.

  7. #97
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    You'd think that there would be more solidarity among the super-human community(heroes anyway).

    I guess only the X-Men/mutants must be oppressed, isolated hated and hunted.

    Gets pretty boring after awhile.
    Like the Hulk or Spider-Man, but on a more systemic as opposed to individual level. While X-Men can allegorize systemic injustice and persecution in real life, I would agree that there are ways to update the allegory for our contemporary era. For example, the role social and digital media plays in perpetuating and propagating bigotry, as X-Men Red attempted to address, or like Rosenberg's run addressed (as bad as it got overall), medicalized attempts at genocide by treating certain persecuted/marginalized groups as a sickness to be cured, only more literally with the X-gene-negating vaccine. Perhaps more mundanely, addressing the kinds of people who don't care enough to be active bigots or active allies, passively standing by and letting the active bigots do the dirty work that they themselves won't, pretending they have clean hands and are above the fray even as the situation edges closer to outright violence and even genocide, whether committed by individuals or by institutions.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #98
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    Given the X-Office's tendency to have their villains turn into anti-heroes, and, eventually, X-Men, over time, I'm not entirely sure I want the X-Men to face off anyone 'ripped from the headlines,' since that seems like it would inevitably lead to white supremacists and neo-nazis and school shooters *on the team.*

    I'm normally all for diversity, but there are a few groups I don't particularly *want* to see represented...

  9. #99
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    I think that it's best when the "mutant metaphor" is considered more loosely. It's far from a perfect analogy, so it's best not to treat it as such.

    The X-Men should have elements of persecution and of progress and change, and people fearing change....all of that. But I don't think that mutants need to always be direct stand-ins for minority groups. When the metaphor is taken too literally, it becomes problematic in a variety of ways. To me, it's really more about "the new" than anything else. Here's something new, here's the people who are scared of it.

    I think it's great that all kinds of people find something of themselves in the X-Men and their stories. I think that as a kid, their stories really helped me to learn to judge people by their behavior rather than by anything else like appearance or race or religion. I identified with them myself....which helped to bring me a little closer to other people who identified with them.

    So I think they need to keep the metaphor a little less specific, and allow for some more nuance. I think that AoX/PoX has already introduced some concepts that could prove quite interesting, so we'll see if that turns out to be the case.

    I'll add that I agree with those who've said they want to see some amount of progress in the stories.....some popular mutants in the Marvel universe culture, and more examples of humans sympathetic to their cause. Someone like Dazzler putting out an album and having it be a big hit rather than a reason to attack her. That'd be nice. I hope to see examples like that in the stories as things progress.

  10. #100
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electricmastro View Post
    considering how there are quite a few successful celebrities of minority backgrounds, such as black actors, black athletes, black comedians, black musicians that are popular and respected by the public by and large, which are situations that can also help spread a message of equality to them, as well as there being numerous black politicians, and America in 2019 just being in a distinctly different place than how it was in 1963, all aspects considered overall and kept in mind, then I'd like to see a shake-up in the human/mutant dynamic in the series.
    Yes, but you’re talking about real world humans. Black Americans were/are often forced to participate in white institutions, have their art and their bodies exploited and appropriated by whites. Mutants are a fictional race with godlike powers. They have the option to create their own government and culture separate from humans like we’re seeing with Hixmen. X-Men in 2019 should be radical and extremist. An existential threat to the human status quo. None of that ‘Hey man, let’s just get along and stuff because we’re all the same!’.

  11. #101
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I thought the best thing about The Gifted was the portrayal and perspective of human parents who just want to protect and do the right thing for those kids. That meant joining a terrorist cell, home schooling, and negotiating with separatist cultures.

    Obvious things like Mutant Town ghettos in big cities, legislation about mutant jobs, those are always welcome... but what about stories starring parents or friends of mutants who WANT to help but are wholly unprepared to deal with mutant children. The X-Men become “bad guys” insisting on separation and secrecy.

  12. #102
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I thought the best thing about The Gifted was the portrayal and perspective of human parents who just want to protect and do the right thing for those kids. That meant joining a terrorist cell, home schooling, and negotiating with separatist cultures.

    Obvious things like Mutant Town ghettos in big cities, legislation about mutant jobs, those are always welcome... but what about stories starring parents or friends of mutants who WANT to help but are wholly unprepared to deal with mutant children. The X-Men become “bad guys” insisting on separation and secrecy.
    uh zzWhat? are people really clamoring that loud dor a stories about Jim the accountant who volunteers at a call center for those poor misguided, Mutants. who need to be totally transparent with humans, stop being so mutanty dampen their Powers and assimilate like good Flatscans?? since when did wanting your own zhit WITHOUT the humans handing out peace and Freedom when they've deemed you've earned it Bad. its nice to have allies buuut
    it.
    Ain't.
    their.
    story.
    Like the few times ice gone to pride I've seen those *EYE ROLLINGLY* Prominent straight allies with their signs and tshirts. (and I'm not saying they're all like this... most organizations do a lotta good) but the Stonewall riots story *usually* dont focus on the straight "allies like its cool youre here for support but wearing a sign telling everyone you're just being a decent human being is tacky

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Issues in the LGBTQIAPK spectrum are all relevant to the mutant analogy, but some of them need an entire context that Marvel don’t seem eager to provide. Even tackling the issues at the left of the acronym seem difficult. Just ask Sina Grace how easy it is to write a book with a guy dating another guy. The amount of negative press that received from long time X-Men fans on otherwise mainstream podcasts and review pages was frankly embarrassing. The unconscious and non-reflective bias was palpable. How easy would it really be to seriously address trans issues or asexual issues if we still think Northstar is as far as comics can go?
    When I met Leah Williams last week-she made an interesting point.

    Because you are playing with SOMEONE ELSE'S toys-you can only do so much before you are asked to go back to that comfort zone the company has established.

    See it's easier to do Midnighter sleeping with guys of color and Apollo because he was LGBTQ from day one. It's harder to do that with Iceman and his 50+ years. You could probably get away with that with Prodigy, The Doras or Kate Bishop's former lover in WCA.

    X-Men will allow you get away with some stuff that others can't like an all LGBTQ X-Men team. You won't get past the announcement before you get death threats if you tried that with Avengers. Despite the fact you could get away with it because we have seen chapters of teams like West Coast Avengers.

    How should the X-Men reflect this modern resurgence of bigotry?
    Well it depends on how down and DIRTY you want to get. I mean no you know whats will be given.

    Challenge Question:
    If Hobie Brown (SpiderGwen universe version) got mutant powers-why would he join the X-Men? When he looks around and aside from Storm & Maggot-there are no other black mutants.
    He is going to ask where are the folks who look like him at? Who is going to tell him how Synch died. Or the kids from God loves Man kills.

    How bigotry is dealt with a Mutant of color is different from a white mutant? Is it like the same way we deal with shooters?
    How many white mutants someone tried to get them help for the "illness"?
    Did we not see Synch surrounded by cops when we saw him introduced?
    Because this is not the Archie universe where it's black and white. You got folks who don't need MUCH to attack a POC or LGBTQ.

    I don't think Marvel wants to go there.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Yes, but you’re talking about real world humans. Black Americans were/are often forced to participate in white institutions, have their art and their bodies exploited and appropriated by whites. Mutants are a fictional race with godlike powers. They have the option to create their own government and culture separate from humans like we’re seeing with Hixmen. X-Men in 2019 should be radical and extremist. An existential threat to the human status quo. None of that ‘Hey man, let’s just get along and stuff because we’re all the same!’.
    Whose to say you can't do both?

  15. #105
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    When I met Leah Williams last week-she made an interesting point.

    Because you are playing with SOMEONE ELSE'S toys-you can only do so much before you are asked to go back to that comfort zone the company has established.

    See it's easier to do Midnighter sleeping with guys of color and Apollo because he was LGBTQ from day one. It's harder to do that with Iceman and his 50+ years. You could probably get away with that with Prodigy, The Doras or Kate Bishop's former lover in WCA.

    X-Men will allow you get away with some stuff that others can't like an all LGBTQ X-Men team. You won't get past the announcement before you get death threats if you tried that with Avengers. Despite the fact you could get away with it because we have seen chapters of teams like West Coast Avengers.



    Well it depends on how down and DIRTY you want to get. I mean no you know whats will be given.

    Challenge Question:
    If Hobie Brown (SpiderGwen universe version) got mutant powers-why would he join the X-Men? When he looks around and aside from Storm & Maggot-there are no other black mutants.
    He is going to ask where are the folks who look like him at? Who is going to tell him how Synch died. Or the kids from God loves Man kills.

    How bigotry is dealt with a Mutant of color is different from a white mutant? Is it like the same way we deal with shooters?
    How many white mutants someone tried to get them help for the "illness"?
    Did we not see Synch surrounded by cops when we saw him introduced?
    Because this is not the Archie universe where it's black and white. You got folks who don't need MUCH to attack a POC or LGBTQ.

    I don't think Marvel wants to go there.
    Hmm, interesting points you raise there. Speaking of Hobie Brown, considering that there's already a universe where he got spider-powers thanks to a spider that had been irradiated by toxic waste carelessly dumped by Oscorp and became an anarchist version of Spider-Man leading a punk rock revolution against President Norman Osborn's corrupt regime, it would be very interesting to see his reaction to the likes of the Avengers and the X-Men. While he'd probably side more with the X-Men than the Avengers, seeing the Avengers as propping up an oppressive system, I could also see him reacting poorly to the fact that the X-Men are being bankrolled by elite billionaires that happen to be mutants, finding it at best incongruous with the idea of fighting for the rights of all mutants to live free of persecution and at worst deeply hypocritical.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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