Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1234
Results 46 to 55 of 55
  1. #46
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    2,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    I am not talking about them like they are interchangeable, they aren't they are different things but you are putting a character in Modern setting they provide some similar things you can't use the other event. Vietnam and the Gulf War are different things but in retelling punisher, they use the gulf war. They aren't interchangeable but they are similar things that can stand for the other thing if one isn't available.

    Here is where I do differ I believe one is more important than the other right now because one is actually happening still. The other is history while Nazi still exist( see Charlottesville) I think telling a story about a present evil is more relevant.
    We get it, dude. You donít think Jewish history is as important and you donít think the Holocaust is relevant.

    Quite frankly I think you chose the wrong hill to die on.

  2. #47
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Isn't Killmonger from MCU basically another version of Magneto? That version made more money than any of the FOX versions. Erasing his Jewish past just because it's in the past seems shortsighted.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    2,142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaubier View Post
    We get it, dude. You don’t think Jewish history is as important and you don’t think the Holocaust is relevant.

    Quite frankly I think you chose the wrong hill to die on.
    That is not the intended take away but I can't control people feelings on this topic. You would think from listening people response that changing one fictional character Magneto an antihero at best It would be erasing every jewish movie every made every current Jewish actor who is acting now from existence and the process would be removing every holocaust movie made like Schindler's List,Sophie's Choice , The Pianist, Defiance, The Diary of Anne Frank,The Courageous Heart of Irena Sendler,Life Is Beautiful etc. Also erasing every other Jewish character like Thing, Kitty Pryde, Doc Samson, Justice, Sabra,etc . The full picture perspective compared to the limited perspective of view thing is far different.

    Once again I understand where people on the other side are coming if they were to change Storm to a Jewish background my complaints would be same as yours. I have seen Hollywood cast Johnny Deep as Tonto, Scarlett Johansson as Major Kusanagi, Emma Stone as Asian, and the list can go on and is extensive. I understand the topic of minority erasure media. But in this case I think some overall good could come from more relevant to today society issue being focus on. It is nothing against Jewish history or the Holocaust. I think Magneto story can be reimagined differently in a modern setting especially if the choice not to make it more sci fi . The best example is the Ultimate Universe or the New 52 which reimagine stories differently.

    Holocaust as lesson and reminder very important still today but if given a choice to highlight something I think that showing they are places still on this earth that has horrific ethnic cleaning still happening is more important imo. If people are viewing it that I am against Jewish history or trying to minimize the relevance of the Holocaust I don't know what to say. If I had a voice in the room where they were working on remake the X-men I would make a case for changing Magneto background.In looking up stuff for this response I count 29 movies about the Holocaust from 2010, in the 2000s I counted another 50 something movies. So about 80 movies from the year 2000.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-13-2019 at 07:19 PM.

  4. #49
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    2,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    That is not the intended take away but I can't control people feelings on this topic. You would think from listening people response that changing one fictional character Magneto an antihero at best It would be erasing every jewish movie every made every current Jewish actor who is acting now from existence and the process would be removing every holocaust movie made like Schindler's List,Sophie's Choice , The Pianist, Defiance, The Diary of Anne Frank,The Courageous Heart of Irena Sendler,Life Is Beautiful etc. Also erasing every other Jewish character like Thing, Kitty Pryde, Doc Samson, Justice, Sabra,etc . The full picture perspective compared to the limited perspective of view thing is far different.

    Once again I understand where people on the other side are coming if they were to change Storm to a Jewish background my complaints would be same as yours. I have seen Hollywood cast Johnny Deep as Tonto, Scarlett Johansson as Major Kusanagi, Emma Stone as Asian, and the list can go on and is extensive. I understand the topic of minority erasure media. But in this case I think some overall good could come from more relevant to today society issue being focus on. It is nothing against Jewish history or the Holocaust. I think Magneto story can be reimagined differently in a modern setting especially if the choice not to make it more sci fi . The best example is the Ultimate Universe or the New 52 which reimagine stories differently.

    Holocaust as lesson and reminder very important still today but if given a choice to highlight something I think that showing they are places still on this earth that has horrific ethnic cleaning still happening is more important imo. If people are viewing it that I am against Jewish history or trying to minimize the relevance of the Holocaust I don't know what to say. If I had a voice in the room where they were working on remake the X-men I would make a case for changing Magneto background.In looking up stuff for this response I count 29 movies about the Holocaust from 2010, in the 2000s I counted another 50 something movies. So about 80 movies from the year 2000.
    So now the argument is, “Jews have enough/too much representation”? Really?

    And once again, you’re arguing that Magneto’s history in the Holocaust can be seamlessly swapped out with another genocide event. Once again, I remind you that it would fundamentally change him as a character because the experiences are not the same.

    Jewish people still get attacked for being Jews, significant buildings still get vandalized, white supremacists still wave around swastikas and Holocaust denial is still a thing. Magneto is one of the most prominent Jewish characters and his being a Holocaust survivor is central to his motives and what makes him a relatable character in spite of some of the terrible things he does. Just because the Holocaust was decades ago, does not make it any less relevant to the present.

    I don’t dispute that awareness of ongoing genocides is important, but erasing Magneto’s history in favor of putting a spotlight on that is not the answer. Again, as has been pointed out, why not make a new character if you’re going to change something that central to his character?

    Using the Ultimate universe as an example of anything is a bad example as Ultimate Mags was an awful version of the character.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    2,142

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaubier View Post
    So now the argument is, “Jews have enough/too much representation”? Really?

    And once again, you’re arguing that Magneto’s history in the Holocaust can be seamlessly swapped out with another genocide event. Once again, I remind you that it would fundamentally change him as a character because the experiences are not the same.

    Jewish people still get attacked for being Jews, significant buildings still get vandalized, white supremacists still wave around swastikas and Holocaust denial is still a thing. Magneto is one of the most prominent Jewish characters and his being a Holocaust survivor is central to his motives and what makes him a relatable character in spite of some of the terrible things he does. Just because the Holocaust was decades ago, does not make it any less relevant to the present.

    I don’t dispute that awareness of ongoing genocides is important, but erasing Magneto’s history in favor of putting a spotlight on that is not the answer. Again, as has been pointed out, why not make a new character if you’re going to change something that central to his character?

    Using the Ultimate universe as an example of anything is a bad example as Ultimate Mags was an awful version of the character.
    -What??? Where did I say Jews have too much representation? You seem to think that everything is an attack, My point in bringing up all that stuff is that one piece of fiction was changed that point of view/story is well represented

    -I brought the Ultimate Universe and Nu52 not talk about Ultimate Magneto but talk to about they retelling a story and vastly changing characters.

    -Lastly, I don't know how times it must be explained,It is not a matter of interchangeable. If you are putting Magneto in the present setting without adding on sci-fi extended lifetime thing. The Holocaust origin is gone. So then you have a choice of making Jewish Magneto without direct origin or creating an event that similar or using a real-life current event that is similar to try to fill a similar motivation. We are talking about fiction and the process of adjusting fiction.

    These are fictional characters they can be changed, the movie universe and the comic universe aren't the same things. You guys read comics it is AU. The MCU is AU isn't the 616 or the ultimate universe. In 99% of the case, I prefer character to stay the same but I have read enough comics and different version turn into interesting things at times that I am thankful that they tried something different. He is not going to be YOUR Magneto, He is going be A Magneto. . You can understand that UU Magneto and 616 Magneto are different things but can't understand how MCU Magneto could be a different thing.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-13-2019 at 08:31 PM.

  6. #51
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    It is not following my lead. The point is to update a story to fit a modern period and shining a light on horrors that are still going on today. If people see Magneto from Sudan or Myanmar and the story of him surviving that nightmare clicks. They become aware of the situation. Them becoming aware of the situation means pressure on governments to do something. Nazis aren't killing Jews today, There is still ethnic and religious mass-murdering still happening
    Update a reality? Doesnt even make sense.

  7. #52
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    506

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    Isn't Killmonger from MCU basically another version of Magneto? That version made more money than any of the FOX versions. Erasing his Jewish past just because it's in the past seems shortsighted.
    Killmonger didnt sell tickets like Magneto did for his movies..lol. Where on earth did you get such a comical idea like that?

  8. #53
    Fantastic Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    Isn't Killmonger from MCU basically another version of Magneto? That version made more money than any of the FOX versions. Erasing his Jewish past just because it's in the past seems shortsighted.
    Not really. He’s more Jason Bourne meets Simba.

  9. #54
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MichelleDiMera View Post
    Killmonger didnt sell tickets like Magneto did for his movies..lol. Where on earth did you get such a comical idea like that?

    WHAT?! Lol. Black Panther sold over a billion. If you combine the American box office for all X movies, it still doesn't reach a billion. How much did the last XMEN movie sell? Like 60 million. The highest grossing X movies were mainly about Wolverine. Killmonger got praise for being one of the few MCU villains who was taken seriously and seen as an antihero who was right (hence Wakanda coming out into the public).

    Not really. He’s more Jason Bourne meets Simba.
    He has a tragic childhood ripped from his parents and now that he's an adult, he's an extremist willing to do anything to save his people. A people that are looked down upon by the rest of the world. He's against BP (a rich and powerful man w many privileges who due to those privileges sees the world in a better light).

  10. #55
    Fantastic Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    365

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RamaBird View Post
    He has a tragic childhood ripped from his parents and now that he's an adult, he's an extremist willing to do anything to save his people. A people that are looked down upon by the rest of the world. He's against BP (a rich and powerful man w many privileges who due to those privileges sees the world in a better light).
    Sounds like pretty standard Hero’s Journey when you distil it down that much. The rich guy is the usurper he has to unseat, right?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •