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  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I knew what you were saying. You said Americans and you said other.
    and you don't think that Americans see non-americans as the other? do you need some examples?
    "I just don't get why you wouldn't want to break the law anymore" --Scorpia

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I know about dehumanization.

    616 Humans dehumanize 616 mutants; it’s how they justify their actions. Dehumanization is a universal and constant state of affairs; it’s how atrocities are justified. I agree with you regarding many things.

  3. #18
    Incredible Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    It is not following my lead. The point is to update a story to fit a modern period and shining a light on horrors that are still going on today. If people see Magneto from Sudan or Myanmar and the story of him surviving that nightmare clicks. They become aware of the situation. Them becoming aware of the situation means pressure on governments to do something. Nazis aren't killing Jews today, There is still ethnic and religious mass-murdering still happening
    If marvel would make an story as a way shining a light on this it would be better to develop a new character, in the hands of a writer who cares and knows about the subject, a character who has this specific background and more importantly it would be better if that character isnīt made a villain. Why I think so, because changing an stablished character ethnic background for political reasons could bring an opposite reaction than the one you are seeking, it will look and felt as if you were saying " this situation isnīt important now" "lest talk about this other one by chaging this character ethnicity"which is the last thing I think you would like to do if your intention is to raise awarness. Maybe we donīt have Nazis today but Nazi ideology is still around as well as anti semitism.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 08-13-2019 at 06:59 AM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    It is kinda tacky to capitalize on Genocide, I understand the intent of the thread but it is pretty messed up to me how this worded. I understand reimagine Magneto to work in a modern setting. I am not pretty sure we should be playing which genocide bingo with Magneto. The reason I wanted Magneto updated because it could shine a real spotlight on the horrors of genocide still going on today with an impactful story. The reason I kept mentioning a Sudan for example because right now they are people in danger of that type of event. In Myanmar, they are events that have had happened recently. I felt that Magneto strong story updated in well-told movie would open up peoples eyes to people being mass murdered today. It is bigger than comics
    That was my reading of the comments of the previous thread, Magnetos success is Marvel capitalising on a genocide.

    So you would create a character from Myanmar and Sudan? What powers would they have?
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 08-13-2019 at 07:00 AM.

  5. #20
    Spectacular Member GigaBalls's Avatar
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    Grigori Rasputin

    An Ancient Mutant the myths behind this villain aren't all they seem to be. He had mutant powers of regeneration, incredible intellect, and pheromone control that allowed him to easily manipulate people, not quite Purple Man levels, but similar. He was also an incredibly powerful shaman/sorcerer. Trained in the arcane, he was also a high ranking member of the Hand. He has previous ties to Mr. Sinister, Apocalypse, and even Dracula. He was able to control the highest echelons of the Russian government and had control of even the Czar. Secretly he had been granted power by Dark Old Gods, and seeked to summon the Old Gods Shuma-Gorath and Hoggoth to Earth.

    He had witnessed man's destruction of everything they didn't understand or argree with, watching over the years as his people the Slavic Cossacks where wiped out by the Russian empire. He even fought along side the legendary Taras Bulba against the predominantly Orthodox Jewish Russian Empire forces for refusing to give up their old ways and convert.

    Realizing that humans couldn't even get along with themselves, he came up with a plan to make humanity slaves to a higher race. He had been working alongside Mr. Sinister at the time, not only trying to breed mutants, but also creating an army of Vampires and Werewolves for the Russian army. He had used this army to conquer several other dimension including Limbo and had added many demons to his army as well.


    He soon become so powerful, even Mr. Sinister fear him. Sensing that he was about to bring about the end of the world by bringing an Old God into the world, the Sorcerer Supreme at the time, the Ancient One, assembled a powerful group of unlikely allies to stop him. The group included Apocalypse, Mr. Sinister, Dracula, the Iron Fist, the Ghost Rider, and all the sorcerers of Kamar-Taj. Together they were barely able to defeat him. Due to his mutant healing factor and his dark gifts, they found they were unable to kill him. Instead he had his hands and tongue cut off and cauterized and tattooed with magical seals to keep them from regenerating to keep him from using his magic. He was then buried alive and seal in an hidden underground crypt for eternity.

    That is until a group of Archeologists stumble upon him....
    Last edited by GigaBalls; 08-13-2019 at 07:38 AM.

  6. #21
    Incredible Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Double post.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  7. #22
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    After reading the Magneto thread I'm surprised Marvel hasn't tried to capitalise from other genocides.

    Create your own Magneto type character with a backstory and power set. We will assemble the best 7 for a counter X-Men.
    My initial response was one of shock... but you're absolutely right. Thats exactly what they did isn't it?
    This type of thing is not for the faint of heart.

    https://genocideeducation.org/resour...era-genocides/

    So I'm going to go "Can we" in the context of marvel and let the others argue about "should we"... "FOR SCIENCE! "

    Thinking about that list Rwanda and Darfur people would be pretty interesting survivors because they'd be young people still.
    Especially if one of them survived ONLY because the mutation flared up just in time to save just the one life. When it died down and our child magneto woke
    without family and in a wasteland.

    Either of these characters should have a major beef with WAKANDA and or Storm... because of goddamn inaction.

    "Tell me... did could you NOT hear the screams on the wind? Did the vibranium protect you from the rhythm of the weak being slaughtered morning, noon, and night?
    You are no goddess, and you are no king... you're barely even a man."


    So... I guess I see two people. One a guy from darfur who has the power to Control Strong Nuclear Force or Strong interaction, but mostly uses it as a "Flying Brick"

    and the other who can "Control the Dead"... but in actuality what he's doing is weaponizing the extra-dimensional DARKFORCE materia to make "Ghosts" and/or "Zombies" shadow copies of people
    and become intangible by being halfway in the dark force halfway out. He is very much in tune with the hungry sentience in the darkforce world so it actually HELPS him make copies and know things he shouldn't.


    A Serbian who was young when they handed him a gun and made him start killing during the ethnic cleansing, but when his mutant power triggered it was accute shared psionic empathy which got "SOAKED" with suffering and
    dying things. Everyone around him then killed THEMSELVES, both oppressors and their victims.
    Essentially, a walking black spot of despair and hopelessness. He's also bulletproof up to 50mm rounds and doesn't need to eat or breathe... but he still needs to drink (and drink he DOES!)
    while telepaths describe using powers near or around him like "Falling into well without a bottom". He confounds Cerebro.


    Stuff like that. Anybody from the kililng fields would be in thier 40's and probably still wanting revenge

    The Chinese Communist cultural genocide would be SUPER INTERESTING if the person who survived that was in some way immortal, a woman having survived the Rape of Nanking. Only to see her own people
    commit more atrocities to themselves a few years later.

    Anyone Native to the Americas, On a slaveship, in armenia 100 years ago, really anything before the holocaust.. the character would have to exceptionally long lived or timetravel, or suspended animation... etc.

    The Holodomor is a tricky one they need to be old, but they also would have had to have survived the Soviet Union, and they are just a likely to have been made a Comrade or a winter solider, but since this occurred
    pre-captain america entering ww2. I think the suspended animation thing works a lot better for this character. Since a burying yourself in suspended animation might... IDK beat starvation. Whatever other powers are had.

    Its an odd thing to think about but ... I also think East Timor would could have an angry mutant survivor.

    I'm not sure that... making such thing are right, but I do know that if I was writing it I could get you to read it.

    Shrug. Humanity. . . "Ours is a tale of sorrow..."
    Last edited by Midnight_v; 08-13-2019 at 07:10 AM.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    it certainly would be. and how do you think the removal of his jewish ancestry would be taken?
    If a Jewish person is mad that, Another atrocity is being highlighted one with current real-world implications. They need to go read up on the Holocaust was honestly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    an uninteresting villain can destroy a franchise. if it isn't broke, why fix it? why not just use another villain altogether?
    I don't see why he would be uninteresting it is the same villain with a slightly different story

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    not one single person will be saved by a marvel movie. give to charity, run for office, start a blog if you just want to make a difference. look around. this is a culture where you could get beaten to death by police and the only "aid" that you'll get is someone putting it on worldstar. violent murders that happened 3 weeks ago have been forgotten and replaced in the news cycle. but people still know what the Holocaust was. nazis are still considered to be villains. at least for a little while.
    What good does knowing who the Nazis are today do? Do they know who is Isis or Janjaweed is ? Do they know Rohingya being killed in Myanmar? Okay Nazi are the villains people should care about?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    If marvel would make an story as a way shining a light on this it would be better to develop a new character, in the hands of a writer who cares and knows about the subject,who has this specific background and more importantly it would be better if that character isnīt made a villain. Why I think so, because changing an stablished character ethnic background for political reasons could bring an opposite reaction than the one you are seeking, it will look and felt as if you were saying " this situation isnīt important now" "lest talk about this other one by chaging this character ethnicity"which is the last thing I think you would like to do if your intention is to raise awarness.
    Nobody is more high profile than Magneto, You just don't want the character changed which I get. This isn't some complex thing if the opportunity to shine a light on real world issue and update character to fit setting comes up it should be an option. It would have to be a strong actor and strong script to green light the move. Lastly, If I repeat again a person Jewish descent is upset that character is being changed to highlight ethnic cleansing atrocities are still happening they are holding on the wrong thing.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-13-2019 at 07:13 AM.

  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight_v View Post
    My initial response was one of shock... but you're absolutely right. Thats exactly what they did isn't it?
    This type of thing is not for the faint of heart.

    https://genocideeducation.org/resour...era-genocides/

    Thinking about that list Rwanda and Darfur people would be pretty interesting survivors because they'd be young people still.
    Especially if one of them survived ONLY because the mutation flared up just in time to save just the one life. When it died down and our child magneto woke
    without family and in a wasteland.

    Either of these characters should have a major beef with WAKANDA and or Storm... because of goddamn inaction.

    "Tell me... did could you NOT hear the screams on the wind? Did the vibranium protect you from the rhythm of the weak being slaughtered morning, noon, and night?
    You are no goddess, and you are no king... you're barely even a man."


    So... I guess I see two people. One a guy from darfur who has the power to Control Strong Nuclear Force or Strong interaction, but mostly uses it as a "Flying Brick"

    and the other who can "Control the Dead"... but in actuality what he's doing is weaponizing the extra-dimensional DARKFORCE materia to make "Ghosts" and/or "Zombies" shadow copies of people
    and become intangible by being halfway in the dark force halfway out. He is very much in tune with the hungry sentience in the darkforce world so it actually HELPS him make copies and know things he shouldn't.


    A Serbian who was young when they handed him a gun and made him start killing during the ethnic cleansing, but when his mutant power triggered it was accute shared psionic empathy which got "SOAKED" with suffering and
    dying things. Everyone around him then killed THEMSELVES, both oppressors and their victims.
    Essentially, a walking black spot of despair and hopelessness. He's also bulletproof up to 50mm rounds and doesn't need to eat or breathe... but he still needs to drink (and drink he DOES!)
    while telepaths describe using powers near or around him like "Falling into well without a bottom". He confounds Cerebro.


    Stuff like that. Anybody from the kililng fields would be in thier 40's and probably still wanting revenge

    The Chinese Communist cultural genocide would be SUPER INTERESTING if the person who survived that was in some way immortal, a woman having survived the Rape of Nanking. Only to see her own people
    commit more atrocities to themselves a few years later.

    Anyone Native to the Americas, On a slaveship, in armenia 100 years ago, really anything before the holocaust.. the character would have to exceptionally long lived or timetravel, or suspended animation... etc.

    The Holodomor is a tricky one they need to be old, but they also would have had to have survived the Soviet Union, and they are just a likely to have been made a Comrade or a winter solider, but since this occurred
    pre-captain america entering ww2. I think the suspended animation thing works a lot better for this character. Since a burying yourself in suspended animation might... IDK beat starvation. Whatever other powers are had.

    Its an odd thing to think about but ... I also think East Timor would could have an angry mutant survivor.

    Shrug. Humanity. . . "Ours is a tale of sorrow..."
    Those are some interesting powersets. The first sounds like Obitos powerset and the second reminds me of D'spayre

  10. #25
    Incredible Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    You just don't want the character changed which I get. This isn't some complex thing if the opportunity to shine a light on real world issue and update character to fit setting comes up it should be an option. It would have to be a strong actor and strong script to green light the move. Lastly, If I repeat again a person Jewish descent is upset that character is being changed to highlight ethnic cleansing atrocities are still happening they are holding on the wrong thing.
    You are right I donīt want to, I am not even of Jewish descent but still I think itīs wrong to talk about genocides as if they were interchangeable because someone believes one is more important to talk about than the other.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 08-13-2019 at 07:16 AM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    That was my reading of the comments of the previous thread, Magnetos success is Marvel capitalising on a genocide.
    Capitalizing is the wrong word imo. The success of that origin is that resonates with people and it fit well with the character. The wording capitalize feels like they exploit the tragedy to make a character sympathetic. Maybe I am being too sensitive to that word.I think Magneto was logically progression of the writer. Saying capitalize feels like saying "let's use 9/11 because it will get us attention" or "Lets use mass shooting because they will get attention". Magneto was a natural story progression because the writer thought it would make sense for him not to grab attention. Just my thoughts. I am just explaining why it feels a little awkward.

    I don't know if I would create a character from one of those places, I know they would benefit from attention being brought to it. That should be a consideration if they are doing Magneto in modern setting

  12. #27
    ...of the Black Priests Midnight_v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Those are some interesting powersets. The first sounds like Obitos powerset and the second reminds me of D'spayre
    I edited the post a little.
    "Interesting?" well thanks ... I guess? LOL.

    I had to google Obito, seen him before in XXXtentacion fan videos...

    I may not have have been clear on the first character. He's a "Superman" type. He controlling one of the fundamental forces of the universe. Similar to how Mags controls electromagnetism, and Gravtion does gravity...
    This guys right up there with Sentry and Molecule man. He's got a powerset in the range of those guys, but he's using it to "one punch man" because he's like just turning 21 and its kind of like the first thing a young guy thinks of.
    Strong Nuclear force is and INCREDIBLY powerful thing to have for anyone.

    D'spayre... yeah. I'm a big fan of the darkforce *nods at avatar* Cloak actually has D'spayre's body and strength etc. I was also inspired by Trauma but I was thinking "Who could survive such things."

    A "Necromancer" from Rhwanda (but he's kinda playing the green lantern game with contructs, like trauma)
    A "Superman" from Darfur
    A "Living well of empathy" a child solider who was forced into the killing, and who has been permanently stained for it.

    Edit: A chinese girl who has survived the 20th century "AT ALL", because her mutant powers allow it and KEEP allowing it. Something like Colossus but with a form that looks like
    marble and is as tough as wolvies claws. I'd throw her one more power as well. . . speed or disembodiment like an earth elemental.

    Something that irks me is that Sunspot never deals with the plight of Afro-Brazilians and many people consider that a genocide going on right now. Why I get so irked when they constantly scrub his
    blackness anytime he has a shot at popularity. . . disgusting.
    Last edited by Midnight_v; 08-13-2019 at 07:33 AM.
    My priority is enjoying and supporting stories of timeless heroism and conflict.
    Everything else is irrelevant.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    You are right I donīt want to, I am not even of Jewish descent but still I think itīs wrong to talk about genocides as if they were interchangeable because someone believes one is more important to talk about than the other.
    I am not talking about them like they are interchangeable, they aren't they are different things but you are putting a character in Modern setting they provide some similar things you can't use the other event. Vietnam and the Gulf War are different things but in retelling punisher, they use the gulf war. They aren't interchangeable but they are similar things that can stand for the other thing if one isn't available.

    Here is where I do differ I believe one is more important than the other right now because one is actually happening still. The other is history while Nazi still exist( see Charlottesville) I think telling a story about a present evil is more relevant.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-13-2019 at 07:27 AM.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Capitalizing is the wrong word imo. The success of that origin is that resonates with people and it fit well with the character. The wording capitalize feels like they exploit the tragedy to make a character sympathetic. Maybe I am being too sensitive to that word.I think Magneto was logically progression of the writer. Saying capitalize feels like saying "let's use 9/11 because it will get us attention" or "Lets use mass shooting because they will get attention". Magneto was a natural story progression because the writer thought it would make sense for him not to grab attention. Just my thoughts. I am just explaining why it feels a little awkward.

    I don't know if I would create a character from one of those places, I know they would benefit from attention being brought to it. That should be a consideration if they are doing Magneto in modern setting
    Magneto was a genocidal maniac. #Remember his gene bomb when he encounteres blackbolt. The personality transplant was a complete 180. By dehumanizing him they humanized him. It made the character better no doubt however his popularity rose because of it. Marvel did capitalise it would be naive to say their intentions were altruistic

  15. #30
    Incredible Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I am not talking about them like they are interchangeable, they aren't they are different things but you are putting a character in Modern setting they provide some similar things because you can't use the other event. Here is where I do differ I believe one is more important than the other right now because one is actually happening still. The other is history while Nazi still exist( see Charlottesville) I think telling a story about a present evil is more relevant.

    If the point is to tell a story about a present evil to raise awarness then just tell the story, thereīs no need to erase another character background for that, thatīs my point.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

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