I think it’s odd Xavier was walking with Moira in the park, and in a wheelchair on Island M.
I think it’s odd Xavier was walking with Moira in the park, and in a wheelchair on Island M.
But the whole point of these lives is that she’s carrying the memories from each one to the next, consecutively. And the stakes as presented are that she presumably has this one last chance to get things right (whatever that means to her after her experiences with Apocalypse.) I’m not saying what you’re suggesting isn’t possible, just that it feels like tacking the twist from The Sixth Sense on to When Harry Met Sally or something. Like.. it would be unexpected, or a cool sci-fi concept in this case, but to what end?
I don’t think Hickman is messing with us. He’s being clear and precise in his delivery as a matter of necessity for the sheer volume of ideas he’s asking everyone to absorb. Every new development is a “yes, and..” and I don’t see any reason to expect them to start being “actually, about that..” He has enough to clean up and clarify from decades of other people’s stories without writing something in issue 2 to amend in issue 5. If he wants to add a new room to the house, it doesn’t have to be a smaller room within a room he already built. It’s his story; he can just add a new wing.
(
I’m inclined to enjoy that guy but that video was a lot of unsubstantiated woo. He asserts all this these things then , midway, says multiple times, “we no evidence of type 1, 2, or 3.”
It’s all baseless constructs attempting to bring order to the universe’s natural state which evidence says is... entropy. I mean, my desk is always trying to become a mess. Not self organize into a higher ordered state.
Stay in school kids.
Last edited by HomoSuperior; 08-15-2019 at 09:37 PM.
I think it just lends more credence to the fact Year 1 is just shorthand for "the early years" I'm pretty sure that Xavier and Moira have already established the X-Men and clashed with Magneto several times already.
I would be surprised if "Year 1" Goes all the way until the genocide at Genosha.
It has to be deliberate since nothing about this has been careless (save the one timeline gaffe Hickman tweeted about) and it seems extremely likely to be because the Island M meeting is in fact meant to be much later, despite them both being labeled “year 1.” The year 1 designation must be loose or relative, because as much as that doesn’t seem to fit, those two meetings occurring in the same year fits even less.
For an extremely thorough breakdown that I think makes it hard to argue that the Island M meeting is any other time but circa UXM #150, check out the latest of the great annotations from House to Astonish: https://www.housetoastonish.com/?p=4686#more-4686 ... the sections on page 3-7, “the timeline” and “Island M”
Good catch. I’m going to go with all these are happening at once per the ten timelines matrix and we are witnessing cross-cutting snapshots. We are all relying on Moira’s lives as context but I haven’t seen evidence that means a single one in linear sequence. Quite the contrary actually. In HOX2 we got a fast overview of her many lives/timelines. Perhaps in some Xavier is in a wheelchair. In others the timeline is more progressed and maybe he never lost the use of his legs. In others maybe he lost the use but then found some way to regain his ability to walk. In short, perhaps it’s all true and once Hickman has completed his story he will have borrowed from many timelines.
Last edited by HomoSuperior; 08-15-2019 at 10:04 PM. Reason: Really bad at computers
Not at all. The powers of 10 are just orders of measures and each "year" tells a story that could last longer and is related to an era.
Year one is the time for building "the dream", year ten "the world" - Krakoa and House of X, year one hundred the time for "the war, and finally year one thousand is about the "ascension".
Back to the dream, year one, it's all happening according to Moira X timeline as shown in HoX#2. She's 17 when she meets Xavier at the fair - probably in Oxford- and Xavier walks. The scene is that issue happens when she's 43 "Moira and Xavier recruit Magneto" - and Xavier is in his classic wheelchair.
We know also that "the world" starts with Krakoa and the foundation of the House of X. And then Moira X is 52 years old.
Last edited by Abe; 08-15-2019 at 11:42 PM.
- To Tammy and the Blue Rose !
About X^2, the war, I don't think it's the endless war of Moira IX. Like JK and others I can't see why Hickman would have mixed together eras from the various life of Moira. I think that he wants to tell the story of her plan, during her Xth life, and it had to be a plan for a millennium and even more. That's the story, and the plan implies "all mutantdom as one" to "break the rules" - even Apocalypse obviously. So for me there's no need to set "the war" in her 9th life - but I'm sure we'll learn more about that life later.
For the war in her 10th life the end will come earlier, maybe by changing the "Genesis protocols/versions/Nimrod" : understanding why the Machines are against mutant and at least trying to change that programmation?
I would add also that nothing forbids that in her 9th life too Sinister was used to make Chimeras.... Or that at the end of it the Phalanx arrived not to propose ascension, but rather to erase that messy planet. The Phalanx or some "universal predators" interested in Earth's "Celestial ressources". Moira would then be more conscious of the path to follow.
More random thoughts and specs and questions...
Isn't the X-gene due to the Celestials? What could be the relationship between the Phalanx and those big guys with wonderful Kirby design? Conflicted? Could Hickman try to use that to explain why the previous Phalanx couldn't absorb mutants ?(I learned about that story in this very thread btw...)
I have also like others the feeling that there could be more to the plan in year one thousand than simply joining the Phalanx - subverting it maybe?
And what about the blue post-humans btw? Could they be related in a way to Apocalypse's technology?
And what about the Shi'ar?
(And sorry about the probably bad English... it's not my language... )
Last edited by Abe; 08-16-2019 at 12:23 AM.
- To Tammy and the Blue Rose !
It is shorthand for that, JDW has explained it a couple times in recent interviews, it's meant to be orders of magnitude. 0-10 is Year 1. 10-100 is year 10, 100-1000 is year 100, and 1000-10000 is year 1000. It's why it's called Powers of X as in Powers of 10.
I get why they did it, but it makes things super confusing.
I think this seems to be a common claim coming up in threads, that somehow Moira sees the future. Moira doesn’t and can’t have knowledge of future events. She only knows the variables and constants that will come into play. It is heavily implied that every time the universe will be different even if she doesn’t act, or acts the same, so effectively she is reacting to events like everyone else.
The difference is, she is changing the course of the future as it was supposed to be and using her knowledge of people she has previously met and events that they may be inclined to play a part in. So for example if she does not do anything to actively change it a Trask will build sentinels, but she now knows that even if she tries her hardest to stop it they will still be created somehow. So to control or be prepared for that constant event and a few others like them she needs to plan, analyse, project, gather data and guess, just like anyone else.
So she is like the counterpart to Destiny. Destiny sees events that will happen and works to change them in her favour. Moira only sees events from her past lives and has no real knowledge of the future, but can change things to arrange the right people and circumstances to be better prepared to direct events as they happen.
You could think of it as a chess analogy. Moira knows the pieces and has a vague grasp of the rules she has gleaned. She can influence a few plays to attempt to arrange the pieces batter. Destiny sees how the game will go in the future and can perceive the rules as they play out, and she can equally influence a few plays to change what she sees will happen.
Neither have perfect knowledge. They compliment each other.
Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-16-2019 at 01:37 AM.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
New for the X-Men. The Kardashev scale of civilisations is a conjecture that is very common in science fiction and SETI make use of it to plan their efforts. So Hickman is cleverly pulling together some sci-fi concepts, some scientific conjectures and some messy canon regards alt-futures and shaping them to his ends.
All three are headed for crunch points. Moments in what Moira has planned that could go either way and perhaps need her influence to nudge them in the right direction.
Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-16-2019 at 02:01 AM.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
Well that’s actually a little vague. If Moira stopped to think about it she might realise that Destiny can only see events as they transpire. She doesn’t actually know if Moira wouldn’t reset if she died before she was 13 unless she actually saw it. How could she see that if it never happens? That’s actually more of a threat. ‘I think I know how to kill you’.
Destiny would not necessarily be able to see how Moira actively changes things. So Destiny is using what she can see to try and influence Moira. We may even have seen ‘maybe 11’ lives already given that rogue blank panel, so Moira may be on the last life she has. Not because her power will run out or because she will not reach 13 next time, but because she is making the right choices to ensure this is her last life.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
I was’t arguing against what you said. Just using your text to make a different point. Hence the crop. We have discussed here somewhere that the way Apocalypse interacts with the Sarcophagus could indicate that Moira is the other person on Asteroid K and that could potentially suggest that X^2 is actually the forever war from M9. I don’t think it is that timeline but that’s not to say Moira isn’t in the box.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.
The scale is only a theoretical construct based on conjecture. What it allows us to do is use the spectra from galaxies to assertain whether there is a class III out there somewhere. We would be able to detect their waste heat unless they know more about fundamental laws of physics than us, which seems unlikely based on our knowledge of thermodynamics.
So far our surveys have found none, so it’s possible Type III civilisations just can’t exist. But again we are guessing how galactic civilisations might work. We have no idea.
It’s convincing enough to convince an underfunded SETI to put some of their money into such things. Nothing more.
https://sites.psu.edu/astrowright/20...civilizations/
It’s interesting science that expands our knowledge in ways both tangential to extraterrestrials, and philosophically in our approach to how we think about our place in the wider universe.
Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-16-2019 at 02:38 AM.
“And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.