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  1. #136
    Amazing Member marseve's Avatar
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    Those familiar with Hickman know that he is just getting started- he has yet to get complicated! All of his previous work was practice to prepare for this...

    I think he wants to solidify his name in X-men history, so he his going to make things even crazier...

  2. #137
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    I think perhaps you have me confused with another poster? I haven't really said anything about any of the times we're seeing being anything but the main timeline until this one post. And definitely nothing about Moira XI. If saying in one post that something may be possible is me being obsessed, then okay dude.
    Sorry if the choice of word sounded too strong. I saw what looked like a very long stretch and used a strong word to describe that stretch. I wasn't implying anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeyefan View Post
    As for "literally nothing" suggesting that as a possibility, you are wrong. The presence of the sarcophagus that Apocalypse has at Asteroid K indicates some kind of "mummified" Moira may be in there. And if so, that could coincide with the lack of ending to her timeline in life 9, and with the opening quote in HoX #2 where Apocalypse promises to make her "something eternal". His goal here seems to be obtaining the information hinted at in the data the others stole and he describes this as being worth the lives of all of his companions. It is worth that much. Perhaps because he can share this data with Moira, and she can then use that knowledge in her next life? I'd say that is a possible interpretation.

    Agree or disagree, that's fine, but there is literally nothing that says it cannot be so.

    Now, it's certainly possible that all of this is still Moira life 10, I'm not saying it can't be. My reading of it prior to this issue is that we are seeing different eras all of the same timeline, and that it would be Moira X and the 616. That's been my viewing of it, this is all in continuity and is the continuity we know.

    This issue made me question that certainty.

    And I don't think it is certain. I don't think we can definitively say one way or another, even if I lean that way myself.
    They are all good points, and I agree with a lot of them. Where we differ is that they point to T9. From where I sit all of them could equally apply to timeline 10, and that would make much more sense to me.

    Plus, if we are in timeline 10 then we won't have to suffer hundreds of people crying foul because Hickman hit a big reset switch at the end of a book everyone at Marvel promised was a new status quo.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    You are right this, explains Magneto´s presence with the X-men before his trial and adds an extra reason why he felt so betrayed by Moira. Maybe we will see more scenes of Moira and Xavier to explain past issues better I was reading about the "Xavier protocols" that Moira had and this explains why Xavier only trusted her to keep them.
    Right, Wasnt Mags on an island during U X-men 150?

  4. #139
    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Also it seems as if there is a bit of debate on that scene with Magneto Miora and Xavier. I’m hearing that it happened before the X-men were created and others saying that the scene takes place after the X-men were created. I wish hickman would have specified that a bit more but I guess he enjoys keeping the timeline mystery going.

    Also I’m confused as to the cyclops conversion with mags and Xavier. So This will be the “first” time they encounter Nimrod? As if they’ve never came into contact with him before ?

  5. #140
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marseve View Post
    Those familiar with Hickman know that he is just getting started- he has yet to get complicated! All of his previous work was practice to prepare for this...

    I think he wants to solidify his name in X-men history, so he his going to make things even crazier...
    Honestly, I see this as a pretty straightforward comic. We have a retcon that tells us that there has been a longer plan going on and we are seeing how that plan unfolds into a longer time frame.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  6. #141
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yistaan View Post
    Could the flashback with Moira, Xavier, and Magneto take place right before Magneto turned good in the 1980s? Maybe this is the retcon on why Magneto decided to be good, face trial, and join the X-Men in the 80s.
    I think it has to take place in that era as opposed to the very early days of X-Men history. I mentioned earlier that this island base of his was established well into the Claremont era, as opposed to Asteroid M which was his earlier HQ. And in that scene, Moira is already married, and Magneto is aware of her work, so she's already established the Muir Island research facility. So I think this is meant to be much later on than the scene with Xavier and Moira.

    The designation of "The X-Men. Year One." is a bit misleading to me....it seems more like a specific era rather than a specific year. Unless we accept that the original run and a decent chunk of the All New All Different run all took place in one year. And ultimately, it's comics, so I'll go with it, but my impression is that this scene must take place well after the X-Men began.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yistaan View Post
    Then Magneto flipped out in the 1991 X-Men Mutant Genesis arc over the revelation that Moira altered his DNA, and later concluded that everything else she said earlier was a lie to turn him good also.

    Xavier knowing about Moira the whole time doesn't hold on closer scrutiny though. None of the past issues make sense with the retcon unless he suppressed the memory or something.
    It depends on what their plan is, and what they may need to do in order to get everything into the proper place for their plan. Hard to imagine that their plan would involve Charles having to get paralyzed then healed then paralyzed again and again....but hey, maybe it was all necessary.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Honestly, I see this as a pretty straightforward comic. We have a retcon that tells us that there has been a longer plan going on and we are seeing how that plan unfolds into a longer time frame.
    I also see it as pretty straightforward (but disagree with your take), and yes the plan is longer than we think, but it is also longer than it appears. Other than that, I think people should just enjoy it as it comes, after all how many people were seeing the Phalanx coming, and who really thinks Hickman is bringing that up as The End.

  8. #143
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    Also it seems as if there is a bit of debate on that scene with Magneto Miora and Xavier. I’m hearing that it happened before the X-men were created and others saying that the scene takes place after the X-men were created. I wish hickman would have specified that a bit more but I guess he enjoys keeping the timeline mystery going.

    Also I’m confused as to the cyclops conversion with mags and Xavier. So This will be the “first” time they encounter Nimrod? As if they’ve never came into contact with him before ?
    They clearly meet him on his Bermuda Island Base as seen in Uncanny X-Men #148 ff. The question is when did he first move to this base.

    We also see Moira go to this base in an earlier timeline T8, in a panel straight off of a Tintin cover.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  9. #144
    Fantastic Member Graphicisnovel's Avatar
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    One of my fears when I read the solicits was, how is he going to make sense of "x-history" and revisit like he is saying? Isnt that going to cannibalize what X-men Grand Design just did, and did pretty well?

    Well it turns out it did exactly what I read, and did a retcon pretty nicely and in the same vain of Grand Design.

  10. #145
    Ultimate Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cranger View Post
    I also see it as pretty straightforward (but disagree with your take), and yes the plan is longer than we think, but it is also longer than it appears. Other than that, I think people should just enjoy it as it comes, after all how many people were seeing the Phalanx coming, and who really thinks Hickman is bringing that up as The End.
    If my theory hold true and Moira's consciousness is still in X^3 we may not need them. They already consumed a world that may have contained her consciousness.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  11. #146
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Sorry if the choice of word sounded too strong. I saw what looked like a very long stretch and used a strong word to describe that stretch. I wasn't implying anything else.
    Okay, fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    They are all good points, and I agree with a lot of them. Where we differ is that they point to T9. From where I sit all of them could equally apply to timeline 10, and that would make much more sense to me.

    Plus, if we are in timeline 10 then we won't have to suffer hundreds of people crying foul because Hickman hit a big reset switch at the end of a book everyone at Marvel promised was a new status quo.
    Well, I generally think all these eras are timeline 10. This issue made me question that a little. But I don't think it's the whole thing that's another timeline......just perhaps the year 100 stuff. If year 100 is Moira IX, then Apocalypse may arm her with whatever data they get from their mission, and then share it with her so she can then use it in life 10, which we're seeing play out in the year 1 and year 10 stuff.

    But I think it would also mean that Apocalypse is manipulating her to his own ends, as well, and she may not be as devoted to Xavier as she seems. Which may explain the cover of the final issue.

    Resetting 1 era of the 4 we've seen....or even 2 of the 4....would be okay. I mean, we don't think of DoFP as being ruined because it actually couldn't have been the actual future. Rachel Summers being the daughter of Scott and Jean made that a possible future, and the story it told should have undone that future within the two part story itself. But it was huge, and Claremont decided to run with it, and expanded upon it....but if he hadn't, I think it would still be regarded as a huge story.

    It's all speculation, though. My preference would be that we're seeing four eras from one timeline. But the speculation is interesting.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    go off king

    That last panel with Erik and Charles on opposite ends of the visor is DELICIOUS. This whole page is gold, but that last panel is really great display of art.

  13. #148
    Spectacular Member Chessboxer's Avatar
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    New reader here. Was just wondering, why is Professer X in the wheelchair in X0 but he can walk in X10? Are we supposed to know this or is this yet to be explained? Thanks

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    If my theory hold true and Moira's consciousness is still in X^3 we may not need them. They already consumed a world that may have contained her consciousness.
    I know, you think that is The End goal. I think that it is the key to the beginning

    For the most part I am trying to step away from too much discussion. I love the theories, and while some stuff can use some examination, sometimes people are basing things off possible misreadings and sometimes the misreading is revealed to be the scrutinizing party, but I always keep in mind Hickman's answer to a question in an early HoXPoX interview:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hickman_deity
    I remember I was at a show and a fan came up to me and told me about this elaborate theory they had about what I had meant in an issue of, I dunno, I think it was Fantastic Four. Anyway, I remember how crushed this person was when I told them that their theory was wrong and why. I mean, this dude was wrecked, and all I could think was, 'Why did I do that?'

  15. #150
    Mighty Member hawkeyefan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chessboxer View Post
    New reader here. Was just wondering, why is Professer X in the wheelchair in X0 but he can walk in X10? Are we supposed to know this or is this yet to be explained? Thanks
    He got a new body, essentially. He used to be in a wheelchair at the start of the X-Men. He's recovered at different points, and then wound up back in the chair a few times.

    All you need to know is that he recently got better.

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