Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    All-New Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4

    Default Will previous Star Wars comics and novels still remain as canon?

    Hello,

    With the Disney takeover, and the new movies coming out, I'm trying to get a better idea as to what will be considered canon still in the Star Wars U. Do the Timothy Zahn novels still count? Do all the Dark Horse comics that told stories of before/during/and after the movies still count as canon?

    Or has Disney remained mum on all these questions?

    thanks
    iosman


    _____________________
    0x00000f
    Last edited by iosman; 08-19-2019 at 07:57 AM.

  2. #2
    iMan 42s
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,958

    Default

    All existing movies are default canonical which includes the Clone Wars animated movie and accompanying TV show. This also includes products on the upcoming Disney+ platform like The Mandolorian. The later series like Rebels, and Resistance are also canonical.

    All novels and comics produced post-Disney are canonical. Son of Dathomir while done under Darkhorse for some reason counts under Disney, I genuinely have no idea why but it's not a bad read.

    All games with story are canonical with the light-side faction (assuming the games have one) are the actual events. For example Star Wars:Commander gives the option of joining the Rebels or Empire, canonically the game's story is the Rebel faction.
    Some games however don't have much if any story and so are dubious if not outright non-canon however the things or places in it are. Star Wars:Galactic Defense depicts the Storm Commando. While it's not clear if they actually participated in the game's events, the Storm Commando does indeed exist. The same can be said of the appearances of said units. While Riot troopers look different now, the carryover in design from the old-EU is considered canonical, it's just there are a couple variants of a suit. One does not supersede the other.

    In terms of blasters (and I only bring this up because 501rst people I've seen talk about it), both sides are equipped with a ton of blasters. Because Battlefront 2015 allows both Imperials and Rebels to carry Bo-rifles, it is canon that Stormtroopers could possess them. However, anything depicted by default in-game is what is considered the standard load-out. Anything else is a deviation of this and while not necessarily non-canon given a blaster's appearance in Battlefront 2015 subsequent lore might make it so. The Imperial Repeater is used exclusively by Imperial Special Forces so a standard Stormtrooper wouldn't use it. Battlefront 2 (2017) allows players to use blasters outside the era and would be considered non-canonical. The existence of a Sequel-era pistol in a Clone Wars era match isn't canon, however the Bluurg pistol would be.
    -----------------------------------
    For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    6,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Son of Dathomir while done under Darkhorse for some reason counts under Disney, I genuinely have no idea why but it's not a bad read.
    The reason it counts is because it was an adaptation of a canceled Clone Wars TV story arc. The reasoning basically being "It was supposed to happen and, like all other canceled episodes, is considered canon anyways."

    Disney has been pretty clear that everything produced before they bought LucasFilm is not canon. They do cherry-pick ideas and stuff from it, but everything going forward is the only canonical tie-ins (barring parody stuff, like Lego projects). As pointed out before, video games do have some more complicated "rules," but easy rule of thumb is that non-storyline games are not canon events, just a sandbox with canon toys to play with.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,896

    Default

    Basically, canon was getting kind of iffy as is even before the Disney sale; the prequels featured some details that overturned some of the stuff in the novels/comics/games; and then Clone Wars in particular changed a lot, especially since many of the novels and comics had already done their versions of the war (In particular, Clone Wars featured a different take on Mandalorians than the novels of the time, upsetting some fans). If anything, Disney actually kind of helped streamline things a bit.


    However, certain characters, planets, ships etc have been sort of re-adapted into the new canon, although with some major differences. Thrawn is in the new canon, with most of his backstory (apart from the outbound flight stuff) pretty much intact, except he never encounters Luke, Leia and co. or the New Republic, instead being an antagonist of the Lothal rebels in the Rebels series.

    Quinlan Vos, likewise, was also re-adapted. Some of his double agent stuff from the comics was sort of retained but altered otherwise.


    Here's a handy guide, although one that's a few years out of date.

    https://io9.gizmodo.com/everything-s...xpa-1792224856
    chrism227.wordpress.com Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

    https://twitter.com/chrisprtsmouth

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    6,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Basically, canon was getting kind of iffy as is even before the Disney sale; the prequels featured some details that overturned some of the stuff in the novels/comics/games; and then Clone Wars in particular changed a lot, especially since many of the novels and comics had already done their versions of the war (In particular, Clone Wars featured a different take on Mandalorians than the novels of the time, upsetting some fans). If anything, Disney actually kind of helped streamline things a bit.
    Yeah, the official story was that after the Clone Wars show was done, they were going to hash everything out and come up with a fully integrated timeline that reconciled everything. Since it ended around the same time as the reboot, there was no need, so the Legends iteration of the Clone Wars is left as a chaotic mess were nothing really makes sense and a lot of stuff was never completed. That said, some stuff, like the Mandalorians, were reconciled in certain Legends tie-ins. Pre-Disney, the Legends stuff was constantly reconning itself to fit the new movies. It kept a lot of stuff in continuity (more or less), but also created a really messy timeline.[/QUOTE]
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,896

    Default

    Yeah, even before CW there were already a few inconsistencies; take the battle of Coruscant for example; Labyrynth of Evil and the Tartovsky animations had largely different versions of it and the events leading up to it.
    chrism227.wordpress.com Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

    https://twitter.com/chrisprtsmouth

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    6,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Yeah, even before CW there were already a few inconsistencies; take the battle of Coruscant for example; Labyrynth of Evil and the Tartovsky animations had largely different versions of it and the events leading up to it.
    Yeah, they were being made at about the same time; the official chronology tried to shuffle things around so all the events more or less happened, but it never really worked. Heck, in terms of that battle, Karen Traviss had it last for several days in her Order 66 novel despite it already being established that it was over in one day.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,896

    Default

    I think there's been one or two hiccups in the new canon as well...I think there's something in a Marvel comic that contradicted something in the Rogue One prequel novel, Catalyst.


    Also LOST STARS doesn't make any mention of the events of Scarif despite one of the main characters being assigned to Vader's destroyer (The manga adaptation actually fixed this) It was of course written before Rogue One but it seemed slightly jarring.
    chrism227.wordpress.com Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

    https://twitter.com/chrisprtsmouth

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    6,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I think there's been one or two hiccups in the new canon as well...I think there's something in a Marvel comic that contradicted something in the Rogue One prequel novel, Catalyst.
    Yeah, there was a Darth Vader-centric issue that basically got everything wrong in terms of the Death Star project and Vader's relation to it (including other Marvel stuff).

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Also LOST STARS doesn't make any mention of the events of Scarif despite one of the main characters being assigned to Vader's destroyer (The manga adaptation actually fixed this) It was of course written before Rogue One but it seemed slightly jarring.
    Well, it's more like the novel starts after Scarif and just goes from there, without contradictory explanations r.e. what happened before. Odd, but I can overlook it.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  10. #10
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1,148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Heck, in terms of that battle, Karen Traviss had it last for several days in her Order 66 novel despite it already being established that it was over in one day.

    One of my biggest problem in Legends was Traviss. Karen Traviss seemingly has a hard time writing for a shared universe. Seriously, she derailed the story of the entire Second Galactic Civil War to go on about Mandalore. Not to mention, she seemingly has Luke forget Sith powers when explaining it to another character (no power differences between a Sith and a standard Jedi? WTF? No ideological differences? Huh?). Then there is the odd scene where Jaina learns how to use a comm. It's not some super comm or regional specific comm. It's just a comm. Jaina has used a comm before. She has in flown ships which use comms. Why is she learning about to how to use a comm?

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    6,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    One of my biggest problem in Legends was Traviss. Karen Traviss seemingly has a hard time writing for a shared universe.
    I think on writing craftsmanship, she was fine, but I did find her opinionatedness off-putting. She would twist things in the books to support her own opinions rather then the established facts (hence all the shilling for the Mandalorians and the Jedi being bad or greatly inferior in her stuff). Her tendency to shut up, if not demonize ("telefans," anyone?) readers who disagreed with her and her ideas. The cult-like groups that arose in the fandom, both devoted to her and her writings and hating everything she did and seeing her as some evil entity, didn't help. (I wasn't around during the height of it and saw most of this in retrospect, so take that in mind, but didn't give me a positive assessment of her, esp. since I didn't think she was that good and, as noted before, she kinda wrote Star Wars to be what she wanted, not what it was.)

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Seriously, she derailed the story of the entire Second Galactic Civil War to go on about Mandalore.
    Yeah, her stuffing the Boba Fett story and her Mandalore worldbuilding was pretty self-serving. I have commented on that before on other forums. In retrospect, it was the only closure we got on her Republic Commandos books, but still, it didn't fit, esp. since the reason Jaina went to Mandalore in the first was because the characters were written to believe that the only way she could learn to fight her Sith brother was to be taught Mandalorian fighting. While it is on record that well-trained Mandalorians can put up a fight with a Force user, it was pretty blatant obvious stacking the deck (if not ignoring the fact that the Jedi would know better how to fight a Force-user), just to put Mandalorians in it. Traviss's tendencies to see the Mandalorians as being the superior culture and the Jedi being inferior was in full swing as well (maybe less drastic then in her Clone Commando novels, where the only good Jedi defect to the Mandalorians, but still).

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Not to mention, she seemingly has Luke forget Sith powers when explaining it to another character (no power differences between a Sith and a standard Jedi? WTF? No ideological differences? Huh?).
    In all fairness to Traviss, that might've been just her following the rules of the era; in the post-New Jedi Order era, Luke had his Jedi Order embrace moral relativism because his nephew had come to the conclusion that the Force worked on an ends justify the means scale, not light side/dark side. This made for the nice situation where you could use all the "dark side" powers you wanted and be okay as long as your intentions were pure. (This's one factor in, while I do have a great deal of nostalgia for Legends, I did not like the franchise from New Jedi Order on much.)

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Then there is the odd scene where Jaina learns how to use a comm. It's not some super comm or regional specific comm. It's just a comm. Jaina has used a comm before. She has in flown ships which use comms. Why is she learning about to how to use a comm?
    Forgot about about that one or never read it, but, yeah, it makes no sense. Even worse then it being a pretty basic skill, Jaina was a gear head growing up (there's a reason that some of us thought Rey would turn out to be Jaina in the movies), so she would know this.

    At the end of the day, I think Traviss's inability to get out of her own head in regards to Star Wars was her downfall, but, in her defense, in some instances she did offer more balance then she usually did (and there has been some theorizing that the novels she had in the pipeline when she quit were working towards a deconstruction of sorts of her Star Wars views), she was a decent writer, at worst, and some of her Mandalorian worldbuilding has come back into canon but separated from her fan biases to them. While much can be said about her, it's not all bad and I kinda see her as someone who wasn't able to let got of her biases more then a bad person.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  12. #12
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    1,148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post

    Yeah, her stuffing the Boba Fett story and her Mandalore worldbuilding was pretty self-serving. I have commented on that before on other forums. In retrospect, it was the only closure we got on her Republic Commandos books, but still, it didn't fit, esp. since the reason Jaina went to Mandalore in the first was because the characters were written to believe that the only way she could learn to fight her Sith brother was to be taught Mandalorian fighting. While it is on record that well-trained Mandalorians can put up a fight with a Force user, it was pretty blatant obvious stacking the deck (if not ignoring the fact that the Jedi would know better how to fight a Force-user), just to put Mandalorians in it. Traviss's tendencies to see the Mandalorians as being the superior culture and the Jedi being inferior was in full swing as well (maybe less drastic then in her Clone Commando novels, where the only good Jedi defect to the Mandalorians, but still).
    Not to mention, it makes no sense. Boba goes on about how the Jedi are useless against warriors who have weapons and armors which are immune to lightsabers as well as being overly reliant on the Force. Except that the Jedi had fought an entire galaxy-spanning war against the Yuuzhan Vong who had both lightsaber resistant equipment and immunity to the Force. She characterizes Jaina as if she was some by the book cop when the Yuuzhan Vong War was basically an exercise in how being by the book was useless. Honestly, I think Troy Denning wanted to spite her by basically ignoring all her plots when he came into finish that storyline.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    6,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Not to mention, it makes no sense. Boba goes on about how the Jedi are useless against warriors who have weapons and armors which are immune to lightsabers as well as being overly reliant on the Force. Except that the Jedi had fought an entire galaxy-spanning war against the Yuuzhan Vong who had both lightsaber resistant equipment and immunity to the Force.
    Yeah. There's a fine line between having an unreliable narrator and "from a certain point of view" aspects and stacking the deck to force things your way. What really makes all this funny is that the first facts established about the Mandalorians was that they were evil warriors defeated by the Jedi during the Clone Wars, pretty much the exact opposite of what Traviss wanted them to be. That said, she did do some impressive worldbuilding and I am glad that canon has borrowed some of the good stuff without her Mary Sue tendencies. So, we now have Mandalorians with an unique culture and an army that can hold their own against Jedi and others, but aren't the invincible greatest ones ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    She characterizes Jaina as if she was some by the book cop when the Yuuzhan Vong War was basically an exercise in how being by the book was useless. Honestly, I think Troy Denning wanted to spite her by basically ignoring all her plots when he came into finish that storyline.
    Maybe? I have heard the theory that the bio-plague unleashed on the planet that would wipe out the Fett family in the novels written by other authors was a jab at her. In a prequel book written later, Traviss herself had her characters theorizing about such a weapon and dismissing it as a stupid idea. No confirmation on whether they were taking potshots at each other, but it's sure looks like it.

    Kinda forgot about how Denning's book wrapped it up and what they did to Traviss's storylines, but I guess Clone Wars redefining the Mandalorians and leading to a revised take on the culture may have been the best revenge her enemies could've gotten.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •