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  1. #151
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Its just silly to think that the whole Bat family will stay away just because they are hold Alfred hostage while people are being killed in the streets. I mean they knew where Alfred was Flash would be in and out before Bane could move. Its just bad bad writing
    I'd say it's perfectly in line with how the batbooks have been written for ages. Why go through No Mans Land when Zatanna could just use a spell to rebuild the city, just as she did for Metropolis 5 years earlier? Why not give Flash a call during Knightfall when Arkham was busted open? Surely the JLA were better suited to deal with The Clench than the Batfamily were?

    The answer to all of these is "because then it wouldn't be a Batman story." It's not bad writing to ignore other characters in service to the story you want to tell. And as someone else said, at least they gave an in-story reason this time with Luthor's gift. In No Mans Land, the JLA stayed away because Bruce said so. That was much poorer writing of an excuse than this is.
    "Darkseid...always hated music..."

    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    The answer to all of these is "because then it wouldn't be a Batman story."
    But them you should imo also leave stuff like Klarions Wand out or stuff like Supermans Appearence in I am Bane.


    Btw. wasn't Thomas Wayne using Miraclo or was that just the Earth 2 Version?

  3. #153

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    I feel like this entire run of "city of bane" is all ideas we have seen done many times before...but only better. Characters ALWAYS come back, so a death is nothing in comics anymore. Added to that, none of the characters are even written the same way I read them for 20+ years, so I have lost a connection with the characters that makes me even feel like "the real Alfred" has died. Can't wait for a new writer to take over. Hopefully the book improves.

  4. #154
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    As much as I think Damian is OP'd and a Marty Stu, I always felt a guy like Thomas who drinks a lot and doesn't care about anything, really should be a pretty crappy Batman.
    Thats assuming he's a normal and hasn't enhanced himself in some way.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  5. #155
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    I have been thinking a lot about this issue and I think I finally came to the realization of what is the problem

    I dont necesarily dislike this chapter but this is a pretty poorly pace because it focuses on doing 2 pretty different things

    on one side there is the first time that Damian meets his grandfather which is on its own a pretty cool thing to happen only to finish too quickly with the "death of alfred"
    and on the other side we have Bruce waking up and "recovering" with Catwoman to then return to Gotham

    if the entire issue was focus on either of these 2 stories, I think it would be find, but the back and forth between them really substracts the impact of what is happening on the other one.

    I dont believe for a second that Alfred is dead, but even if he is dead the fact that this happen in front of Damian makes it pretty significant, he will see this as a huge failure on his part and he will most likely try to revive Alfred with either the Lazarus pit or some other method. so I dont consider this event as a necesarily bad thing on the short run. but it doesnt feel impactful, specialy when the next page after Alfred's neclk is snap we get Batman and Catwoman planning their return to Gotham. the necksnap should had been the end of this issue, not that page, and ofcourse at the same time the whole discussion and recovery of Batman kind of loses importance next to what is actually happening in Gotham.

    the pieces are fine but the way they are being mixed is not good.
    did anyone else felt this

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    I'd say it's perfectly in line with how the batbooks have been written for ages. Why go through No Mans Land when Zatanna could just use a spell to rebuild the city, just as she did for Metropolis 5 years earlier? Why not give Flash a call during Knightfall when Arkham was busted open? Surely the JLA were better suited to deal with The Clench than the Batfamily were?

    The answer to all of these is "because then it wouldn't be a Batman story." It's not bad writing to ignore other characters in service to the story you want to tell. And as someone else said, at least they gave an in-story reason this time with Luthor's gift. In No Mans Land, the JLA stayed away because Bruce said so. That was much poorer writing of an excuse than this is.
    I think it's more the fact that ANYONE, government or hero, would allow a city to remain in the hands of Bane or any other villian is ridiculous. The citizens are living in terror. The arguement that there is no crime is idiotic. You have crazed villians acting as cops and tormenting the real cops and civilians. I don't give a shit if it's Batman's city or not, he hasn't been around so SOMEONE would step in. You mention No Mans Land but other heroes did try to get involved with that and Batman told them to leave. That's not happening here. It's also not a city devestated by a natural disaster where the citizens have been ordered to leave. This is a city that has been taken over by villians, even though we are never told how this actually occured (seems like some pretty important information to know). I doubt we'll ever know because I doubt Tom King knows. He doesn't think of details, he just writes ridiculous moments and people seem to eat it up and forget that coherent stories include details.

  7. #157
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon1load View Post
    I think it's more the fact that ANYONE, government or hero, would allow a city to remain in the hands of Bane or any other villian is ridiculous. The citizens are living in terror. The arguement that there is no crime is idiotic. You have crazed villians acting as cops and tormenting the real cops and civilians. I don't give a shit if it's Batman's city or not, he hasn't been around so SOMEONE would step in. You mention No Mans Land but other heroes did try to get involved with that and Batman told them to leave. That's not happening here. It's also not a city devestated by a natural disaster where the citizens have been ordered to leave. This is a city that has been taken over by villians, even though we are never told how this actually occured (seems like some pretty important information to know). I doubt we'll ever know because I doubt Tom King knows. He doesn't think of details, he just writes ridiculous moments and people seem to eat it up and forget that coherent stories include details.
    I strongly agree with you on the first part. Not on NML. I feel it very out of character for the other heroes not to intervene just because Batman says so. Also makes Batman a psycho, since he'd rather the people of his city suffer and die than accept outside help. I can't accept the premise of the other heroes doing that, so I can't get into NML.

  8. #158
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon1load View Post
    I think it's more the fact that ANYONE, government or hero, would allow a city to remain in the hands of Bane or any other villian is ridiculous. The citizens are living in terror. The arguement that there is no crime is idiotic. You have crazed villians acting as cops and tormenting the real cops and civilians. I don't give a shit if it's Batman's city or not, he hasn't been around so SOMEONE would step in. You mention No Mans Land but other heroes did try to get involved with that and Batman told them to leave. That's not happening here. It's also not a city devestated by a natural disaster where the citizens have been ordered to leave. This is a city that has been taken over by villians, even though we are never told how this actually occured (seems like some pretty important information to know). I doubt we'll ever know because I doubt Tom King knows. He doesn't think of details, he just writes ridiculous moments and people seem to eat it up and forget that coherent stories include details.
    That guy with the dog did have a leash that was too long. Scarecrow and Zzasz were doing ok until they pulled out the gun. All they need is a little more social skills.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  9. #159
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    It really does seem more and more as though Bane may still be a puppet in all of this.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  10. #160
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    It really does seem more and more as though Bane may still be a puppet in all of this.
    Honestly really think about it, ever since the reveal in Issue 50, what have we seen Bane ACTUALLY do? Sit in a chair, play dead, break Batman's back, sit in that basement and talk to Luthor, and now "snap Alfred's neck". Meanwhile Thomas has been doing a WHOLE lot more and right in front of everyone. So yeah at this point, I'm on the side of believing Bane is nothing but a face for Thomas to recreate HIS Gotham, which I hope because that's an incredibly interesting place to take this story.

    It would also completely recontextualize #72, the recap issue, having Thomas essentially steal/change Bane's plan from right under him.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Sonic The Hedgehog, Absolute Carnage, Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, Gwenpool Strikes Back, Runaways, The White Trees

  11. #161
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    I think King just wants to highlight Bane as a mastermind again, rather then the brute he’s devolved into over the years. Though who knows, maybe he’s pulling a Hush with Kite-Man.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-22-2019 at 10:05 PM.

  12. #162
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    I find the death of Alfred really poorly done.

    Back in the silver age he died when saving the lives of Batman and Robin, here it is purely done for shock value.

    I mean Alfred does hardly appear in that issue and does nothing of note, if that really a permanent death a long running support character like him would have really deserved something better.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I think King just wants to highlight Bane as a mastermind again, rather then the brute he’s devolved into over the years. Though who knows, maybe he’s pulling a Hush with Kite-Man.
    If Bane is supposed to come off as a mastermind it's poorly written. Revealing that Bane had the most convoluted plan ever and that everything worked exactly like he wanted was lame as hell, especially since all confrontations between Bane and Bruce seem to end with:" I broke you Batman!" "I will break you Bane, like you broke my back!!!" and then they punch each other anyway.

  14. #164
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ansa View Post
    If Bane is supposed to come off as a mastermind it's poorly written. Revealing that Bane had the most convoluted plan ever and that everything worked exactly like he wanted was lame as hell, especially since all confrontations between Bane and Bruce seem to end with:" I broke you Batman!" "I will break you Bane, like you broke my back!!!" and then they punch each other anyway.
    I couldn't have put it better myself.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  15. #165
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I find the death of Alfred really poorly done.....
    You are not alone. I feel the same way. Thank goodness I didn't pay for this issue I read my friend's copy. She is thinking of dropping the book now too so I won't be able to cheat in the future lol.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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