[Spoiler] Batman 77 Preview and Discussion thread

[Blue22]

Ugh. I'm still torn. On one hand, Damian wasn't exactly poorly written or out of character (Kinda...he still felt...off). But damn. If people didn't already hate the character, this and Teen Titans all in one day is gonna make it happen. I didn't hate the issue like I thought I would but...I didn't like it either.

[Swallowtail]

But King is going to bemoan about how much hate he gets and so on like all writers do now when they do things they know will rile up readers. He falls back on shock value probably more than any writer in recent memory. It isn't a style I tend to like, but that is just his style.

I mean, yeah, that's pretty justified. Nothing a writer does to a fictional character deserves the amount of bile they get online nowadays. If you're getting death threats and DC have to hire you a bodyguard because you broke up a fictional couple, a little bit of bemoaning is the least you have earned.

Though why would you think he would bring back Alfred in his run? He could, but a while back he gave interviews about how he had to go to DC/WB's upper management in order to do something. I'm assuming that something was killing Alfred. Then he said he wanted it to have an impact lasting like 15 years.

Because he said the change was coming in Batcat 12, not in Batman 77 and because he just recently established a pit which can swap a life for a life. And Thomas swapping his life for Alfred's is a way they could remove Thomas from the board again while getting Bruce back to a place where he doesn't detest his father...

[Korath]

I actually like the Teen Titans issue, because I can't help but feel so sad for Damian. He clearly enjoys nothing of what is happening to him and his team, he doesn't even seem to relish or be somewhat happy of what they do to the criminals. It's like he's just all alone and broken but try to bury it under an enormous amount of work.

Meanwhile, he comes out as a jerk and an arrogant imbecile in this issue of Batman. He got something to incapacitate Gotahm-Girl but was too dumb to have something for the fake Batman, whom he has to know all about his skills since he apparently hacks into the Justice League servers where Batman clearly write long blog posts about his evil dad and ****.

[kilderkin]

But King is going to bemoan about how much hate he gets and so on like all writers do now when they do things they know will rile up readers. He falls back on shock value probably more than any writer in recent memory. It isn't a style I tend to like, but that is just his style.

Though why would you think he would bring back Alfred in his run? He could, but a while back he gave interviews about how he had to go to DC/WB's upper management in order to do something. I'm assuming that something was killing Alfred. Then he said he wanted it to have an impact lasting like 15 years.

Not all creative but some will write for shock value knowing the reaction it generates

I'm ok with that in a way, I think it shows a lack of skill and finesse bit there you go

What amazed me is when the reaction comes in some creative seem genuinely surprised how much heat it produces

Some consumers go way too far, but in general shock writing will produce shock responses

I've long lost any interest in king, I really think he's a poor writer in my opinion

People said his Mr miracle was brilliant but for me it just meandered to a nonsense non ending

His batman started well, imo, but I really think (imo) it's just trash now of a staggeringly low quality

It's padded out, bloated and lacks real substance, he's never had the ideas to write this many issues, much too much filler and when he tried to throw in some drama, it just comes across as shock value pulp writing

In my opinion

I'm well past that

I suspect batman might end up deliberately killing someone in the run

It's going to be a long time before I'll really be interested in batman again after this run as a solo book

[Blue22]

I actually like the Teen Titans issue, because I can't help but feel so sad for Damian. He clearly enjoys nothing of what is happening to him and his team, he doesn't even seem to relish or be somewhat happy of what they do to the criminals. It's like he's just all alone and broken but try to bury it under an enormous amount of work.

Meanwhile, he comes out as a jerk and an arrogant imbecile in this issue of Batman. He got something to incapacitate Gotahm-Girl but was too dumb to have something for the fake Batman, whom he has to know all about his skills since he apparently hacks into the Justice League servers where Batman clearly write long blog posts about his evil dad and ****.

Yeah this is why I said Damian felt off. He's arrogant, yeah.
He always has been. But I feel like a lot of writers like to crank that up to 11 to make him do or say things that are REALLY stupid. Things he should probably no better than to do at this point in his life. Charging into Gotham like that, alone, with only one plan, to defeat Gotham Girl. We sure this kid is related to and trained under Talia and Ra's?

Of every character I've read in recent years, he really is the one who often feels like a completely different person depending on who's writing him. It's even more jarring when he's featured prominently in two different comics on the same day. Like today.

[Swallowtail]

And I honest-to-God didn't realize that was King. It was one back issue I read, and I didn't look at the writer, and had it in my head it was older and from pre-King days. I only started looking at writer names (for anything) in the past six months to a year, and don't usually look unless I see a drastic change in a short period of time (then I check to see if we've changed writers).

That wasn't targeted at you specifically. I'm not aware that you said it. The internet is vast and the knife and fork thing has been a repeatedly brought up bone of contention for many, many people since the comic came out three years ago. I was just trying to think of the least consequential thing I've heard anyone complain about.

Not liking something (and saying so) is not the same as "the state of being pushed over the edge of sanity and having a complete and utter freak out or mental/emotional breakdown."

Uh, nobody said that. I said that a lot of comics readers feel entitled to shout at comics writers over every detail of characterisation they don't like and that the noise to signal ratio must be high. So if people are going to be mad anyway, as a writer, you might as well tell the story you want to tell.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Wait so with spoilers:

Alfred

end of spoilers gone, who’s going to provide that critical comic relief to these stories??? Dick?......oh wait.

[dietrich]

Meh if people are going to hate the character based on this then they weren't that big a fan anyway or are too easily swayed. so not that worried about people hating on Damian.
I was expecting far worse to be honest.
I haven't read it but it doesn't sound too bad to me. I'm not that shocked Bane killed Alfred. If I was bane looking to dismantle Batman's support system and break him emotionally Alfred would have been the 1st to go ages ago.

I'm more surprised at TT. Sounds like everyone drank the koolaid

[Tzigone]

Not liking something (and saying so) is not the same as "the state of being pushed over the edge of sanity and having a complete and utter freak out or mental/emotional breakdown."

Uh, nobody said that. I said that a lot of comics readers feel entitled to shout at comics writers over every detail of characterisation they don't like and that the noise to signal ratio must be high. So if people are going to be mad anyway, as a writer, you might as well tell the story you want to tell.

That's the first definition of "lose your ****" that came up when I Googled.

I was just trying to think of the least consequential thing I've heard anyone complain about.

And complaining, even about minor stuff, is not someone losing their ****. It's appropriate to complain (or praise) minor things about a comic book on a board or forum that is dedicated to discussing comic books. It's part of discussion. And a pattern of little things can add up to a big thing.

Death/violence threats are never appropriate. "That was dumb" or "that was awesome" comments pretty much always are, even when I don't agree.

Though why would you think he would bring back Alfred in his run? He could, but a while back he gave interviews about how he had to go to DC/WB's upper management in order to do something. I'm assuming that something was killing Alfred. Then he said he wanted it to have an impact lasting like 15 years.

Yeah, I don't see it lasting. No one takes death seriously since at least the 1990s, IMO (have discussed this in past), and it's not that likely to stick. Which is why I'm bored by it, and think writing planned-temporary-deaths (if that's what this even is, instead of some kind of audience fake-out for shock value cliffhanger - haven't read it) is poor writing these days. Oddly, I don't even know if I'd be that upset at a real Alfred-permanent death these days, if well-done. But it would have to be the one angsty storyline, not just the next in line of a never-ending sequence of misery-causing events.

I'm more surprised at TT. Sounds like everyone drank the koolaid

I enjoy recreational outrage at fictional works. But frankly, there's so very much material for it now, given all the horrible things DC is having "heroes" (do some even deserve to be called that anymore?) do, that's that's not even fun anymore unless I'm reading someone else's well-written complaint. Now it's just bleak laughter at the absurdity of it. Not that there's not anything good coming out of the company, but DC really seems to enjoy heroes being unheroic, and that's definitely not my thing. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go seek out info on what's happening in TT beyond the horrible, illogical prison that I already didn't like.

[Swallowtail]

Yeah this is why I said Damian felt off. He's arrogant, yeah.
He always has been. But I feel like a lot of writers like to crank that up to 11 to make him do or say things that are REALLY stupid. Things he should probably no better than to do at this point in his life. Charging into Gotham like that, alone, with only one plan, to defeat Gotham Girl. We sure this kid is related to and trained under Talia and Ra's?

I think you have to accept it's in the Gotham bubble and once you do that, it's okay. Yeah, if he could call on Superman and Jon and call on the Teen Titans that makes nonsense of the story but that's true of so many Batman stories.

But if you accept that his wider DCU teams are unavailable, then he's so isolated. He's got no Dick, no Alfred, no Bruce. The only Batfamily member he knows well who is around is Tim, who as far as he is concerned is being a coward, as usual, and who doesn't know what to do either. He's done his homework and researched both Gotham Girl and Thomas before he's come. He can take her out and he believes he can take Thomas. Of course he's going to act and try and save his city.

But he's also a scared 13 year old boy and so he makes a mistake.

[Swallowtail]

That's the first definition of "lose your ****" that came up when I Googled.

And complaining, even about minor stuff, is not someone losing their ****. It's appropriate to complain (or praise) minor things about a comic book on a board or forum that is dedicated to discussing comic books. It's part of discussion. And a pattern of little things can add up to a big thing.

Again, that's not what I said.

[Tzigone]

Again, that's not what I said.

You said folks were losing their **** over knife and fork and then said it was the most minor thing you could find that people complained about. Complaining isn't losing your ****, that's all I'm saying. And typing something on a message forum isn't "yelling" (unless it's all caps).

[Korath]

If he can acquire a wand able to stop a meta-human of the caliber of Gotham-Girl, it is incredibly stupid of him to actually want to confront the fake Batman and Bane with nothing else up his sleeve. Damian may be arrogant, but he hasn't been that arrogant since a long time ago. He knows that some foes are deadly, and that he can't take them head-on. He should know that Thomas and Bane are both skilled and dangerous, and he should have sought a sure-fire way to best them.

But he didn't, because King needed another traumatic event in his run and decided that Damian would be the one to be shat on, once more. But well, since this arc is already shock-full of incoherences (the Tweedle serving under Bane in 75 and on the run in 76, Damian has no plan at all and doesn't know what to do in 76 and has some perfect plan to take down the one thing he couldn't wrap his head around in this issue), I guess I shouldn't be surprised. King clearly doesn't care about much beyond shock values, certainly not actually telling a story, let alone a good story.

[Swallowtail]

You said folks were losing their **** over knife and fork and then said it was the most minor thing you could find that people complained about. Complaining isn't losing your ****, that's all I'm saying.

I mean, yes, it's pretty minor but I'm not troubled by people arguing it on forums. That's what fan forums are for. It's people tweeting it at Tom King that causes legitimate complaints to disappear in the white noise of "EVERYTHING YOU DO IS WRONG".

[Swallowtail]

But he didn't, because King needed another traumatic event in his run and decided that Damian would be the one to be shat on, once more. But well, since this arc is already shock-full of incoherences (the Tweedle serving under Bane in 75 and on the run in 76,

I think maybe you're mixing up the Tweedles with Arthur Wesker, the Ventriloquist in #75.