Who's Next? New Avengers or Ultimates?

[Sutekh]

Oh, if they use O'Grady I expect it'll be as a villain and foil to showcase how far Scott has come from before he was Ant-Man.

I definitely think they need to explore Scott and Cassie's dynamic with her being older now and how that effects their relationship. And I guess where Hope fits in even though I still don't really buy into that relationship.

I think I prefer them as people who hooked up once, but are so past that stage of their lives, with all the occasional awkwardness that ensues (since Scott isn't quite as 'over it' as Hope is...).

Huh. Doc Justice and the J-Team. My gut is predicting it will get enough of a push to last longer than The Order, but still end up less memorable than the New Warriors, or either iteration of the Champions.

[JudicatorPrime]

Next is Doc Justice and the J-team!

To think that Ultimates was cancelled, but they'll happily allocate funds to silly projects like this instead. SMDH.

[Ascended]

Oh, if they use O'Grady I expect it'll be as a villain and foil to showcase how far Scott has come from before he was Ant-Man.

I definitely think they need to explore Scott and Cassie's dynamic with her being older now and how that effects their relationship. And I guess where Hope fits in even though I still don't really buy into that relationship.

O'Grady as a villain would be....acceptable, I guess, as long as that's all he was. But I feel like between Stature and Goliath and Hope (the actress seems like she's really loving the costume and is in no rush to finish her run as Wasp) we've got plenty of options for a post-Scott MCU.

To think that Ultimates was cancelled, but they'll happily allocate funds to silly projects like this instead. SMDH.

I loved Ewing's Ultimates but if I recall correctly it didn't sell very well so I can see why Marvel isn't in a rush to bring it back. Doc Justice......yeah, that just sounds silly and oddball but sometimes silly and oddball works, you never know till you try. And if this is spinning off the Warps (which I've never read) I can see why they'd want to capitalize. That stuff was popular and sold well right?

[mugiwara]

Doc Justice is just the next Runaways arc.
The whole "Marvel's next great team" thing is a tongue in cheek advertissement.

[Marvell2100]

To think that Ultimates was cancelled, but they'll happily allocate funds to silly projects like this instead. SMDH.

They still could have done better with Ultimates.

[JudicatorPrime]

I loved Ewing's Ultimates but if I recall correctly it didn't sell very well so I can see why Marvel isn't in a rush to bring it back. Doc Justice......yeah, that just sounds silly and oddball but sometimes silly and oddball works, you never know till you try. And if this is spinning off the Warps (which I've never read) I can see why they'd want to capitalize. That stuff was popular and sold well right?

Sometimes you have to be patient when you're filling a niche and building an audience. The Ultimates didn't sell well for a number of reasons, not the least being that early adopters jump shipped when they felt like Ewing gave us more of a bait and switch than anything else. When you promise one thing, but deliver something else, there's no recovering from that. Not with the business model that Marvel uses currently.

Honestly, I hope the J-Team does well for the fans that support those characters. But it's likely not a book written to target readers like myself. So be it.

[Ascended]

You'll have to refresh my memory then. What bait and switch are you talking about? Haven't read those books in ages now.

[Frontier]

O'Grady as a villain would be....acceptable, I guess, as long as that's all he was. But I feel like between Stature and Goliath and Hope (the actress seems like she's really loving the costume and is in no rush to finish her run as Wasp) we've got plenty of options for a post-Scott MCU.

I mean, he's basically a villain now so it wouldn't be too off base.

Can Cassie replace Hope ?

[Steroid]

I love me some Monica so Ultimates all day.

[Steroid]

You'll have to refresh my memory then. What bait and switch are you talking about? Haven't read those books in ages now.

Ewing pretty much outright stated that Ultimates would be a book where Blue Marvel would cut loose with his powers. Same for Monica and it damn sure didn't come close to happening.

[dkrook]

Ewing pretty much outright stated that Ultimates would be a book where Blue Marvel would cut loose with his powers. Same for Monica and it damn sure didn't come close to happening.

Truth, I think that once Ewing tried to force America into the group dynamics the book suffered. Remove her and give the team more grounded and hardcore opposition. The Ultimates would have a better shot.

[mace11]

Cutting loose

actions or behavior that reflect a carefree, usually impulsive manner of doing just what one pleases; living in the moment

Let's be careful with that word cutting lose.I see those words too much here in this forum over the years lately.

Blue marvel use alot of power to contain Shaper's Ghost and he knock out ultimate hulk with one punch.
Some thing normal savage hulk could not do when they fought in the last secret wars.
Adam and monica even combined to take out a really powerful villain.
Ewing did not promise that adam and monica will be cutting loose in every issue or most of the time.
Cutting loose doesn't mean someone will win or always win by the way.
Keep in mind They were dealing with really powerful forces etc.. in ultimates.
Adam and monica did cut loose sometimes but constantly cutting loose was not the main focus of the book.

There was no bait and switch.
Here is some of the early interviews and what the main focus of the 616 ultimate books was.

Ewing and Rocafort's "Ultimates" Stand Guard Against Alien Empires & Cosmic Entities

The Ultimates thwarted the threat by changing Galactus from a devourer of worlds to a life-bringing entity, but in doing so have they upset the Marvel U's "cosmic balance?" CBR News spoke with Ewing about his inspiration for transforming Galactus and what exactly the character has become following this fundamental change. Ewing also expounds on the next problem the "Ultimates" will tackle -- fixing the fractured nature of time in the Marvel Universe, all leading to a cosmic odyssey that takes the team to the world "Outside" of the new MU.

I kind of feel like having powerhouses like Adam and Monica on the Mighty Avengers helped us push things further -- we kept going to these very strange, cosmic places. A lot of the cosmic stuff we're doing in "Ultimates" will have seeds in the "Mighty Avengers" run, although you don't need to have read that to understand this. A lot of the time, because we had these less powerful characters in the mix as well, we couldn't fully cut loose on the scale and scope that maybe Adam and Monica deserved -- although we did sometimes, especially towards the end. I feel like this book is going to be more about cosmic-powered heroes dealing with threats that are on their level. But hopefully they'll still have that connection to ordinary humanity.


I've got plans. I don't know how many of them I want to mention here -- I don't want to jinx them. Smaller scale -- there's a particular old-school monster I'd like to play with, and I want to do something with the Dreaming Celestial if I get the chance. And we're going Outside. We've had things come in from Outside, but I don't think we've ever had anyone go Outside themselves, and I figure that's the next natural step in that plot line.
And there might be things out there that are too big for even the Ultimates to handle. I feel like the deep end is a good place for this team to be.

https://www.cbr.com/ewing-and-rocafo...smic-entities/

[mace11]

I voted the ultimates.

Here are the other early interviews.

Squad Goals: Meet the Team in Al Ewing and Kenneth Rocafort’s ‘Ultimates’ [Interview]
https://comicsalliance.com/al-ewing-...tes-interview/
and
Ewing's "Ultimates" Transform Galactus, Travel "Outside" the Known Marvel Universe
https://www.cbr.com/ewings-ultimates...rvel-universe/

[mace11]

You'll have to refresh my memory then. What bait and switch are you talking about? Haven't read those books in ages now.

This is what i posted a few years ago in ULTIMATES REPERCUSSIONS THREAD.

Here is what ewing promised for season 2 because i feel there is serious revisionist or rewriting of history going on here.


Marvel NOW! Hear This: Ultimates Squared

Al Ewing takes the most powerful team in the Marvel Universe to the next level!

Al Ewing: Personally, the plan is to double down on the elements that struck a chord with people the first time around: the big cosmic, the psychedelic vistas. Things are a little more directed, though—the mysterious Cosmic Jailer who chained Eternity will be a bit more evident. They’ve been on the periphery of events for a while now, lurking and looming, but now they’re taking their rightful place as the Big Bad. So now the Ultimates are a team with a defined enemy they’re working to uncover and stop.

Marvel.com: Travel Foreman is now on as the artist for the book. How does his style inform the pacing? Have you noticed any changes in your scripting style because of the influence of his art style? What made him a good choice, in your opinion for ULTIMATES SQUARED?

AL Ewing: Well, he’s brilliant. I’ve seen his cover, it’s astonishing—his cosmic game is obviously on point. His art’s previously grabbed me by the throat and not let go, so I’m extremely happy to have him on board and very much hoping I do him justice on the script front. As for the tone…well, I’m going to take advantage of his horror chops in December with [a] ghost story. I’m looking forward to seeing where we go after that.

Marvel.com: What can you tell us about the makeup of the team? Any new or departing members you can speak to?

Al Ewing: The core five are still in place—plus Galactus. We hinted from the start that he was on the team, and now he’s a part of things.

Which might sound weird to those who know Galactus mostly by reputation, but those who’ve been following ULTIMATES will know that the Devourer of Worlds evolved into the Lifebringer, a cosmic force for good, and been charged by Eternity himself with the ultimate mission: finding out who caged all creation.

Meanwhile, we can expect guest stars—Philip Vogt and his Troubleshooters will be a big part of the Earth side of things, and if things go as they have done we can expect some Giant-Man action. Oh, and Conner Sims, the Anti-Man, has a big role to play in things…

Marvel.com: The team’s mission to be less super hero vigilantes and more scientists and explorers with super powers took them to some interesting places and embroiled them in some complex conflicts so far. How, if at all, does ULTIMATES SQUARED revisit or alter that mission statement in the wake of those experiences?

Al Ewing: They’re still acting as scientists, explorers, and problem-solvers, but ULTIMATES SQUARED gives them a single problem to solve. Galactus brings them the question—who chained the cosmos? Who imprisoned everything? And they have to solve it, and that leads them into some interesting areas. We’ve seen cosmic science, issue #2 of ULTIMATES SQUARED deals with cosmic parapsychology. If there’s something strange in your universe, who you gonna call?

Marvel.com: As a writer, how has your approach to the returning characters evolved? How might you be changing your handling the team?

Al Ewing: Characters have arcs, and that’s true for the characters in ULTIMATES SQUARED. They’re all learning stuff. I want to do more with America and Monica—Carol got a huge dose of the spotlight, what with Civil War II, and she’s going to have some fallout from that, while T’Challa has his own book and the first season of ULTIMATES was very Adam-heavy. So I want to balance things out a little there. Not that we’ll see the rest of them fade into the background, of course.

Marvel.com: If I could step aside for a moment and allow you to speak directly to fans, what one or two sentence statement would you want to make sure they could hear to sell them on this comic?

Al Ewing: Welcome to the A-Squared list. It doesn’t get bigger than this.

Marvel.com: As far as you are able, can you tease anything, plotwise, about the book’s opening arc?

Al Ewing: Heralds of Galactus. Tensen in the ranks. Secret identities. Ordered Chaos. Infinity and Beyond.

https://news.marvel.com/comics/26557...mates_squared/

This is what ewing promised.
No tricks,no dropping of the ball or anything like that.
He delivered on what he said he will do and did it.
Everything he said what this team will be about was in the books.
You just have know what you getting into after you read this interview and it's up you if you want to read a book about superheroes who are explorers,scientists and problem solvers first.
That is what the books were about first and that's what i have clearly seen and read.
If folks think this was going to be some other type of book then there is nothing else to say to folks like that.

I go into more details here.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...cussions/page4
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...cussions/page5
and here.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ciation/page56
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ciation/page57

[H-E-D]

At first I was confused and thought “wasn’t the first Avengers movie basically the Ultimates?” Millar’s Ultimates volume one and two were some of my all time favorite Marvel comics.

In a lot of ways, yeah, but tonally, they're pretty far apart. Ultimates 1, like most of Millar's works, is a gleefully nihilistic book. Whedon's Avengers is a pretty upbeat and optimistic movie.

Iirc, there was a big rights issue with Eli so Marvel basically stopped using him.

Has that ever been confirmed? I've never seen anything to substantiate that beyond fan speculation. Not even on Bleeding Cool.

You'd think if there was a legal issue with using Eli, it would extend to reprints of older Young Avengers material, but there doesn't seem to be any issue there.