Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 100
  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,995

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Wally held a run too. Timís solo proved they could sell him as Robin way back when, everything with him not as Robin though has been a dud. They keep giving him shots and they have nothing to show for it.
    The OP raises a good point, why do they keep trying to make him the next Nightwing when they donít even want Nightwing around. Itís not like Timís sudo-Nightwing has gain any traction anywhere, to the point they are pretty much trying again from scratch but now with one of their probably most expensive creators.
    While the treatment of both generations is far from great, it's strange that DiDio has done more to sabotage Dick's generation than Tim's. Despite the fact that Dick can sustain a solo as Nightwing, if just barely, in even the shittiest of conditions and the Titans have an overall greater other media presence.

    It's why the whole "DC has a Silver/Bronze age bias" stuff doesn't ring completely true to me, because these 90s kids are getting a lot more chances than the ones from the 40s-60s.

  2. #62
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    42,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    While the treatment of both generations is far from great, it's strange that DiDio has done more to sabotage Dick's generation than Tim's. Despite the fact that Dick can sustain a solo as Nightwing, if just barely, in even the shittiest of conditions and the Titans have an overall greater other media presence.

    It's why the whole "DC has a Silver/Bronze age bias" stuff doesn't ring completely true to me, because these 90s kids are getting a lot more chances than the ones from the 40s-60s.
    I mean, when you look at how they were handled in the New 52, Tim's generation didn't get much better.

    I think the real difference is that Bendis wanted to write the Young Justice generation and he got enough leeway to pull it off.

  3. #63
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    8,673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I liked the Chris Yost/Fabian Nicieza Red Robin solo .
    And I liked Batgirl’s Burnside run, but there’s more to it then that

  4. #64
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    8,673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, when you look at how they were handled in the New 52, Tim's generation didn't get much better.

    I think the real difference is that Bendis wanted to write the Young Justice generation and he got enough leeway to pull it off.
    I must have missed most of them being booted off into limbo while the remnants and their accomplishments were divided up and pass onto others. DC was trying to make Tim’s gen the flagship of one of their lines with the New 52. Despite Tim no longer being Robin and that gen having more in common positionally in the new time line with the likes of Steph and Cass. That was infinitely better then what they had invisioned for Dick and Wally’s gen with the New 52.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-23-2019 at 02:24 PM.

  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,995

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, when you look at how they were handled in the New 52, Tim's generation didn't get much better.

    I think the real difference is that Bendis wanted to write the Young Justice generation and he got enough leeway to pull it off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I must have missed most of them being booted off into limbo while the remnants and their accomplishments were divided up and pass onto others. DC was trying to make them the flagship of one of their lines with the New 52. That infinitely better then what Dick’s gen got.
    Well they did have to wear a bunch of ugly looking Tron outfits, and be written by Lobdell.

    But yes, looking at Wally getting banished from canon only to come back and get HiC'd, and Finch's Donna Troy, listless Dick Grayson who was robbed of Agent 37 and subsequently Ric'd, Tim's gen got off really light.

  6. #66
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    42,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    And I liked Batgirl’s Burnside run, but there’s more to it then that
    I wish Burnside had been more like that run .
    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I must have missed most of them being booted off into limbo while the remnants and their accomplishments were divided up and pass onto others. DC was trying to make them the flagship of one of their lines with the New 52. That infinitely better then what Dick’s gen got.
    I mean, with how most of them were in-name-only depictions in that New 52 run (to the point where fans try and pretend they didn't happen), I don't think it really was in the long-run.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Well they did have to wear a bunch of ugly looking Tron outfits, and be written by Lobdell.

    But yes, looking at Wally getting banished from canon only to come back and get HiC'd, and Finch's Donna Troy, listless Dick Grayson who was robbed of Agent 37 and subsequently Ric'd, Tim's gen got off really light.
    I think we say this thinking now that Bendis, one of the biggest names in comics, is doing right by them at the moment, but it was a completely different story at the height of the New 52.

    I mean...Bar-Torr. Just, Bar-Torr.

  7. #67
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    8,673

    Default

    It’s not like they went into the 52 thinking Lobdell was gonna be crap and wanting to do Bar-Torr. A lot of that was reactionary and made up while in the thick of it. As much of the New 52 was.

    But Bendis is doing the same thing they tried to do with them with the New 52, he’s just executing better. And even still the reception seems rather lukewarm.

    Compared to Dick’s gen who most went into limbo and DC had no vision whatsoever for. Even now if Bendis wanted Dick’s gen to rebuild they probably wouldn’t give them to him. Not like we haven’t seen that before.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-23-2019 at 02:21 PM.

  8. #68
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    42,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    It’s not like they went into the 52 thinking Lobdell was gonna be crap and wanting to do Bar-Torr. A lot of that was reactionary and made up while in the thick of it.
    Which goes to show you the level of effort and thought being put into Tim's generation at the time.

  9. #69
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    10,577

    Default

    Sometimes, I just wish DC would bite the bullet and do what Dark Horse was doing with Star Wars.
    Continue all the eras, with distinct trade dress to tell them apart.

    Maybe keep the current DC as the main one with ongoing titles, and then do mini-series set in the other eras that continue the stories from their time or add to them.
    Maybe a JLA Satellite era mini-series, a Wolfman Titans mini-series, a Pre-Crisis Earth-2 JSA mini-series.

    One of the things I liked about the 1991 JSA mini-series was that since it was a 'throwaway' project and they weren't too focused on fitting it into continuity, it was a bit vague and could easily be seen as a lost tale from shortly after the original All-Star Comics run.
    I still keep it just because in my headcanon it did happen on Earth-2.
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  10. #70
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    42,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Stone View Post
    Sometimes, I just wish DC would bite the bullet and do what Dark Horse was doing with Star Wars.
    Continue all the eras, with distinct trade dress to tell them apart.

    Maybe keep the current DC as the main one with ongoing titles, and then do mini-series set in the other eras that continue the stories from their time or add to them.
    Maybe a JLA Satellite era mini-series, a Wolfman Titans mini-series, a Pre-Crisis Earth-2 JSA mini-series.

    One of the things I liked about the 1991 JSA mini-series was that since it was a 'throwaway' project and they weren't too focused on fitting it into continuity, it was a bit vague and could easily be seen as a lost tale from shortly after the original All-Star Comics run.
    I still keep it just because in my headcanon it did happen on Earth-2.
    Slightly off-topic, but I kinda like DC's current trade dress with the logos and black binding .

  11. #71
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    8,673

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Which goes to show you the level of effort and thought being put into Tim's generation at the time.
    But it wasn’t a lack of effort, more just bad effort. And still nonetheless far more effort then Dick’s gen saw with the New 52 LoL. As most of them got the boot and no longer even existed, as Tim’s gen was now the creators of the TTs.

    In retrospect it turned out poorly yes, as pretty much everything they have tried with them after the New 52 has, it still speaks to how DC sees them. As does DC’s continued attempts. Despite how poorly it turned out before, and the lack of really anything to show for it so far.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-23-2019 at 02:47 PM.

  12. #72
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    1,697

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Actually the OP was pointing out the double standard to this practice when it comes to Tim Drake, and asking why Tim Drake is immune from the Wally treatment. With them constantly bending over backwards to find ways to keep him relevant despite not being Robin anymore. Like making him the creator of TTs and launching a line around his team, or making him Batman Beyond, or giving him to one of their highest paid creators so they can try again to create a new persona for him and launch that line around his team.
    I'm glad they're re-branding Tim Drake into a unique character. I would have preferred if Tim stayed Robin and Damian got a new identity - Tim fits the traditional Robin role more, and Damian has a strong enough character hook and personality to stand alone as something else. But that ship has sailed, so Tim getting re-branded is better than being "The Other Robin" (Red or otherwise).

    Hopefully they have a good name and concept prepared. What we've seen of the costume so far doesn't excite me, but maybe it will work better with some context.

    I think Wally having a unique code-name and a more original costume would be a good idea too.

    As it currently stands, he doesn't have a unique super hero name, or a unique civilian name, or a unique setting, or a unique job, or a particularly unique costume or power set. If the character is to thrive, then he needs something.

  13. #73
    Mighty Member 9th.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,546

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Well they did have to wear a bunch of ugly looking Tron outfits, and be written by Lobdell.

    But yes, looking at Wally getting banished from canon only to come back and get HiC'd, and Finch's Donna Troy, listless Dick Grayson who was robbed of Agent 37 and subsequently Ric'd, Tim's gen got off really light.

    I liked Kon's tron outfit, I thought it looked really good on him.
    Reading list: Miles Morales: Spider-Man (Marvel), Ironheart (Marvel), Champions (Marvel), Jessica Jones: Purple Daughter (Marvel), Runaways (Marvel), Young Justice (DC), Naomi (DC), Justice League Odyssey (DC), My Hero Academia (VIZ), Bitter Root (Image), Quincredible (Lionforge), Buffy the Vampire Slayer Reboot (BOOM!)

  14. #74
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    42,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    But it wasn’t a lack of effort, more just bad effort. And still nonetheless far more effort then Dick’s gen saw with the New 52 LoL. As most of them got the boot and no longer even existed, as Tim’s gen was now the creators of the TTs.
    Didn't do them a lot of good compared to being in limbo, to be honest.
    In retrospect it turned out poorly yes, as pretty much everything they have tried with them after the New 52 has, it still speaks to how DC sees them. As does DC’s continued attempts. Despite how poorly it turned out before, and the lack of really anything to show for it so far.
    I don't think DC really cared that much about them. Again, I don't think they'd even still be around now if not for Bendis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    As it currently stands, he doesn't have a unique super hero name, or a unique civilian name, or a unique setting, or a unique job, or a particularly unique costume or power set. If the character is to thrive, then he needs something.
    (If we're talking about Wally) He needs DC to focus on him to a significant capacity without tearing him down.

    He should've had a proper solo book without need HiC or this Flash Forward mini. But they won't let another Flash like Wally be out there to go alongside Barry's book.

  15. #75
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I think Wally having a unique code-name and a more original costume would be a good idea too.

    As it currently stands, he doesn't have a unique super hero name, or a unique civilian name, or a unique setting, or a unique job, or a particularly unique costume or power set. If the character is to thrive, then he needs something.
    Ad Frontier pointed out, what Wally needs is to be allowed to exist without being hampered or weighed down by story arcs specifically designed to hamper and weigh him down and "remove" him from being a "threat" to Barry.

    And as for what he lacks, well, his civilian name being taken isn't really his fault given that he was the first to have that name. Also, and its been a long time since I read Mark Waid's Flash, but wasn't Keystone always cemented as being Wally's city as opposed to Central City, which was Barry's?

    But honestly, who says that a successful spin-off character needs to be unique in every aspect of their character? She-Hulk had pretty similar powers to the original Hulk. Guy Gardner is still rocking a Green Lantern ring, despite there being like five other human Lanterns. Miles Morales is still swinging around NYC, wearing essentially a variation of Peter's costume, and still calling himself Spider-Man, isn't he?

    So, sorry, but I don't see how Wally's situation is any different. In fact, I think this idea that Wally needs something more to set himself apart is just justification for DC's current unwarranted treatment of him.

    Wally has enough distinguishing characteristics that set him apart from Barry just by virtue of being who he is. So I don't think there's much risk, if any, that Wally will come off as redundant. At least, its not any more likely with him than it is with Kyle Rayner or Miles Morales or Guy Gardner or literally any other legacy/spin-off character.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 08-23-2019 at 09:57 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •