X-Men Monday (8/19/19)

[spirit2011]

So black people in comics can only be treated with the utmost absolute respect and cannot be shown doing anything morally questionable and must be shown in the best possible light at all times?

That's not helpful. That's just patronizing.

That is not what I think, Fitzroy is a good villain. Blade is morally grey.

I just think that writers were unfair to Bishop and what he represented to fans. he was the primer Black male on x-men and one of the most importants for marvel, now it is all gone

[fsger]

That is not what I think, Fitzroy is a good villain. Blade is morally grey.

I just think that writers were unfair to Bishop and what he represented to fans. he was the primer Black male on x-men and one of the most importants for marvel, now it is all gone

And his race gives him a special status? It means he can't make mistakes or that people can't dislike him?????

Marvel does worst things more times to people of all races and genders.


Really how sad is that every debate there will be about Bishop will be derailed behind the "racism" excuse.

Can't have a serious discussion that way

[Strong Girl Daken]

And his race gaves him a special status? It means he can't make mistakes or that people can't dislike him?????

Marvel does worst things more times to people of all races and genders.


Really how sad is that every debate there will be about Bishop will be derailed behind the "racism" excuse.

Can't have a serious discussion that way

You dont get the context of Bishop being in the X-men, a superhero team that fights discrimination with 0 prominent black men?

Stop defining racism as the intent. Decisions and actions can have racist effects, like sabotaging the one prominent black character so that Cable can have (another) antagonist. Do I think the writers hate black people? No. Did their story take a popular black hero off the table? Yes (the only popular man the X-men have)

[Leirus]

IIRC Bishop being made Aborigine pre-dates Messiah Complex by a number of years. I think Claremont did it to link him to Gateway.

I have always still considered Bishop African-American. His family roots are Aborigine, but IIRC he was raised in the Americas.

Oh, I did not mind when Claremont made Gateway his grandfather or greatgrandfather. But then along came The Life and Times of Lucas Bishop, and they made him a full blooded aborigin, born in Australia, and relocated directly to a concentration camp in America. I mean, I have nothing against aboriginals, but it was a weird thing to do with a character widely perceived as african american. I think everyone gently ignored that, but... It kind of bugs me. Because if Bishop is aboriginal australian, the first male black x-man is actually Synch. And he died before graduating.

[fsger]

You dont get the context of Bishop being in the X-men, a superhero team that fights discrimination with 0 prominent black men?

Stop defining racism as the intent. Decisions and actions can have racist effects, like sabotaging the one prominent black character so that Cable can have (another) antagonist. Do I think the writers hate black people? No. Did their story take a popular black hero off the table? Yes (the only popular man the X-men have)

1- I already pointed why this issue concerns me. I'm a black man, stop thinking i have to like any character just because they share my skin tone. I disliked his actions on this particular story and will keep mentioning them because that happens to every other character on the X-men. Like Emma, Cyclops, etc, etc.
what's wrong with judging everybody under the same rules?

2-That is what everybody keeps spamming, I have been saying why the whole deal has nothing to do with racism

[powerpax]

Again, nobody's saying you have to like Bishop. And I am not saying that the writers were racist. But I do think it's a very unfortunate story choice that plays on racist stereotypes and it did no favors for the X-Men's diverse lineup.

Oh, I did not mind when Claremont made Gateway his grandfather or greatgrandfather. But then along came The Life and Times of Lucas Bishop, and they made him a full blooded aborigin, born in Australia, and relocated directly to a concentration camp in America.

Wasn't he relocated at birth?

[Triniking1234]

Roberto Da Coasta wants to know your location.

[Silver Fang]

Oh, I did not mind when Claremont made Gateway his grandfather or greatgrandfather. But then along came The Life and Times of Lucas Bishop, and they made him a full blooded aborigin, born in Australia, and relocated directly to a concentration camp in America. I mean, I have nothing against aboriginals, but it was a weird thing to do with a character widely perceived as african american. I think everyone gently ignored that, but... It kind of bugs me. Because if Bishop is aboriginal australian, the first male black x-man is actually Synch. And he died before graduating.

Sad really. And lets not forget his intro where tons of cops were pointing guns at him. And the fact he was the one continually beaten up by white kids at the school before getting killed off in a ridiculous fashion that his power could've prevented if he were being written properly.

[PsychoEFrost]

You dont get the context of Bishop being in the X-men, a superhero team that fights discrimination with 0 prominent black men?

Stop defining racism as the intent. Decisions and actions can have racist effects, like sabotaging the one prominent black character so that Cable can have (another) antagonist. Do I think the writers hate black people? No. Did their story take a popular black hero off the table? Yes (the only popular man the X-men have)

Then your anger should lie with Jim Lee and Chris Clairemont for not introducing any black characters to the X-Men for decades, and their first attempt being a very "Super Friends" kind of racist with Storm.

You can't have someone be immune from being used in a negative story because of their minority status. What, can Magneto not be shown doing something evil because that would be anti-Semitic? Can Wolverine not be shown doing something evil because that's bias against the elderly? Can Jean not be shown to do something evil because that would be unfair to rape survivors?

[powerpax]

So black people in comics can only be treated with the utmost absolute respect and cannot be shown doing anything morally questionable and must be shown in the best possible light at all times?

Of course not. I hate that when it's done for gay characters too. But the problem comes when you consider the question of where all the other black male X-Men are before, during and after that story. The answer is: Bishop is the only one. Synch has been dead since the Clinton administration; Prodigy was the C-team of kids in that era and is still not heavily featured in the books. Darwin was where? Maggott?

Bishop is and was the only prominent black male X-Man. And they chose to make him a bloodthirsty murderer bent on shooting a white baby. When you have no other prominent black males in the book that is an issue, plain and simple.

That's not saying these characters have to be saints or tokens. It is saying, gee, maybe it wasn't the best idea to do when there are so few leads of color in the books. Or are we going to pretend MC/Second Coming is some masterpiece of storytelling as opposed to a crap series of crossovers as part of the books spinning in place for over a decade, with a lead character (Hope) that has no point or relevance today?

[Leirus]

Again, nobody's saying you have to like Bishop. And I am not saying that the writers were racist. But I do think it's a very unfortunate story choice that plays on racist stereotypes and it did no favors for the X-Men's diverse lineup.



Wasn't he relocated at birth?

I do not really remember the issue all that well? I vaguely remember his mother giving birth, maybe even in the transport?. But at any rate, he is a completely different ethnic group. It is a bit like Sunspot. Yes he would be seen as black in the States, but he is not african american in the sense Frenzy, Synch or Triage are. Same goes for Darwin and Cecilia Reyes, who are black hispanic. Maybe I am too nitpicky with this?

[powerpax]

No, I agree with you. I was just asking.

[Leirus]

No, I agree with you. I was just asking.

Yup, I think he was born just as nuclear bombs were destroying Australia, and relocated either to a guetto or a concentration camp shortly thereafter.

[spirit2011]

Then your anger should lie with Jim Lee and Chris Clairemont for not introducing any black characters to the X-Men for decades, and their first attempt being a very "Super Friends" kind of racist with Storm.

You can't have someone be immune from being used in a negative story because of their minority status. What, can Magneto not be shown doing something evil because that would be anti-Semitic? Can Wolverine not be shown doing something evil because that's bias against the elderly? Can Jean not be shown to do something evil because that would be unfair to rape survivors?

Putting the blame on Lee and Claremont is very LOL

Like people have been saying many of black males on X-men have been killed or just on limbo.
So why carey and company didn't took a black male from limbo or created another?

That's not saying these characters have to be saints or tokens. It is saying, gee, maybe it wasn't the best idea to do when there are so few leads of color in the books. Or are we going to pretend MC/Second Coming is some masterpiece of storytelling as opposed to a crap series of crossovers as part of the books spinning in place for over a decade, with a lead character (Hope) that has no point or relevance today?

OG Cable is dead. So yeah this story destroyed a black character for ntohing

[PsychoEFrost]

Putting the blame on Lee and Claremont is very LOL

Like people have been saying many of black males on X-men have been killed or just on limbo.
So why carey and company didn't took a black male from limbo or created another?



OG Cable is dead. So yeah this story destroyed a black character for ntohing

Isn't "destroyed" a lofty term for someone who was just in X-Men Red and Bobby's solo in large roles, was the lead of his own Age of X-Man book, and is still a heroic member of the X-Men, and not a single soul has even begin to mention Hope or Cable to him?