X-Men Monday (8/19/19)

**Snoop Dogg** · 08-21-2019, 11:39 PM

Him being one of the very few POC of significance made it tone-deaf and wack.

**Strong Girl Daken** · 08-21-2019, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost

I don't see how it is or was racist. The only explanation I've ever gotten is "because he's the only high profile black male on the team, so having him do a face/heel turn is racist."

No. No it's not. It was dumb, don't get me wrong. But there was nothing "racist" about his words or actions. His story was exaggerated, but still fit with his character since his debut (that he'll do just about anything to make sure his horrible future doesn't happen).

He was used because there were only six time travel relevant characters at the time. Rachel was MIA, Kitty was a no go, Shard was dead, and it made more sense for Bishop to try and kill Hope then for Cable to do it (since Hope's connection to the Phoenix lends itself more to Cable and his family than Bishop).

Yeah it's a coincidence that white writers made a (previously heroic) black character the villain to prop up the lily white Cable and Hope. Racism is what keeps stories about white heroes at the cost of characters of colour.

**Leirus** · 08-22-2019, 12:13 AM

I could get over Bishop having a stint being a baddie, but they went waaaaay to far with him. He killed more people than Dark Phoenix. And human beings, too, not broccoli people.

bishop37.jpg

And then they brought him back, just like that. I do not even know who the character is supposed to be anymore.

To me, not bothering to give him a redemption arc or directly reboot him is even worse than the heel turn. Like no one gives a **** about him.
And that is not even touching the decission of retconning him as an australian aborigen.

**PsychoEFrost** · 08-22-2019, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by Strong Girl Daken

Yeah it's a coincidence that white writers made a (previously heroic) black character the villain to prop up the lily white Cable and Hope. Racism is what keeps stories about white heroes at the cost of characters of colour.

You're looking for malice where there isn't any. I extremely doubt that every single writer, editor, artist, and colorist for that entire period was a complicit racist.

**CoCoBandz** · 08-22-2019, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Leirus

I could get over Bishop having a stint being a baddie, but they went waaaaay to far with him. He killed more people than Dark Phoenix. And human beings, too, not broccoli people.

bishop37.jpg

And then they brought him back, just like that. I do not even know who the character is supposed to be anymore.

To me, not bothering to give him a redemption arc or directly reboot him is even worse than the heel turn. Like no one gives a **** about him.
And that is not even touching the decission of retconning him as an australian aborigen.

But, I mean.....the humans suck.

Bishop is cool.

**Snoop Dogg** · 08-22-2019, 01:10 AM

If they had the stones, they would've pitted Cable against a mad Doc Brown. Woulda' been gnarly.

**Triniking1234** · 08-22-2019, 07:27 AM

I don't mind turning Bishop evil for a Cable vs. Bishop story but that Cable series made him untouchable and Humphries at least scrapped off the fungus before it got worse.

Cleaning up after other writer's bullshit ain't easy. I doubt Nate Grey is ever coming back after that horse **** storyline of Disassembled but if Hickman can rescue Vulcan, anything's possible.

**MechaJeanix** · 08-22-2019, 07:36 AM

The treatment of Bishop was absolutely racist and I cannot fathom how anyone could argue otherwise. Some people are so blind to what constitutes racism, just like Rosenberg being non lgbt was blind to his wolfsbane story. People of the majority have huge blinders towards these issues. The Bishop thing is unforgivable to me , same as with the wolfsbane story.

**fsger** · 08-22-2019, 07:47 AM

No way, so every other character has to be responsible for the stupid things the writers make them do but in Bishop's case he doesn't have to be judged but everybody else is a racist?
BS, people judge Cyclops, Emma, Beast and Xavier (all white) for evil stuff they have done over the years and nobody is saying the writers are evil but blaming the characters.

They all get hate and are held responsible by writers and fans but Bishop going pyscho no? It is totally ignored.
What a pathetic excuse, to ignore everything not convenient and not held responsibilities.

He went psycho, made others suffer and is the victim. Imagine if that was Cyclops or Wolverine, even freaking Captain America gets more hate for less stuff.

**Triniking1234** · 08-22-2019, 07:51 AM

It's not racist cuz it's a comic book and we honestly don't know the writers personally enough to make that call.

Apocalypse is far worse than Evil Bishop so is Louise Simonson a racist?

**fsger** · 08-22-2019, 07:53 AM

Louise wasn't racist that is just Apocalypse. portraying a character on a bad way is not hating them for something.

It is like Cyclops, Marvel painted him twice as a bad husband, are they saying that all white men are bad husbands??? of course not!

**Snoop Dogg** · 08-22-2019, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by Triniking1234

It's not racist cuz it's a comic book and we honestly don't know the writers personally enough to make that call.

Apocalypse is far worse than Evil Bishop so is Louise Simonson a racist?

keeping him in that belt is pretty discriminatory

**spirit2011** · 08-22-2019, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Triniking1234

It's not racist cuz it's a comic book and we honestly don't know the writers personally enough to make that call.

Apocalypse is far worse than Evil Bishop so is Louise Simonson a racist?

Apocalypse was created by Louise Simonson. she didn't took a hero and transformed into a villain.
Fitzroy is a original villain and no one says that it was racist

even the most woke can say racist things. It is a long time educating yourself

**powerpax** · 08-22-2019, 09:20 AM

There is a big difference between creating an alien-like villain and taking one of the few prominent black male X-Men and making him a genocidal war criminal obsessed with hunting down and murdering a white infant.

I don't think it was intentional, but it was tone-deaf and never should have happened.

**spirit2011** · 08-22-2019, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by powerpax

There is a big difference between creating an alien-like villain and taking one of the few prominent black male X-Men and making him a genocidal war criminal obsessed with hunting down and murdering a white infant.

I don't think it was intentional, but it was tone-deaf and never should have happened.

Agree.
.

even the most woke can say racist things. It is a long time educating yourself

Originally Posted by Leirus

I could get over Bishop having a stint being a baddie, but they went waaaaay to far with him. He killed more people than Dark Phoenix. And human beings, too, not broccoli people.

bishop37.jpg

And then they brought him back, just like that. I do not even know who the character is supposed to be anymore.

To me, not bothering to give him a redemption arc or directly reboot him is even worse than the heel turn. Like no one gives a **** about him.
And that is not even touching the decission of retconning him as an australian aborigen.

It was a series of bad decisions. IDK what was the reasoning about this and if writer/editotor even thought how tone deaf was all of this and the implications.

the australian aborigen seems like a way to not be racist just so Bishop isn't african american anymore? LOL writers thought they would get away with it

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