Page 9 of 13 FirstFirst ... 5678910111213 LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 188
  1. #121
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    8,631

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    So black people in comics can only be treated with the utmost absolute respect and cannot be shown doing anything morally questionable and must be shown in the best possible light at all times?

    That's not helpful. That's just patronizing.
    That is not what I think, Fitzroy is a good villain. Blade is morally grey.

    I just think that writers were unfair to Bishop and what he represented to fans. he was the primer Black male on x-men and one of the most importants for marvel, now it is all gone

  2. #122
    BANNED fsger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    350

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    That is not what I think, Fitzroy is a good villain. Blade is morally grey.

    I just think that writers were unfair to Bishop and what he represented to fans. he was the primer Black male on x-men and one of the most importants for marvel, now it is all gone
    And his race gives him a special status? It means he can't make mistakes or that people can't dislike him?????

    Marvel does worst things more times to people of all races and genders.


    Really how sad is that every debate there will be about Bishop will be derailed behind the "racism" excuse.

    Can't have a serious discussion that way
    Last edited by fsger; 08-22-2019 at 12:33 PM.

  3. #123
    Incredible Member Strong Girl Daken's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fsger View Post
    And his race gaves him a special status? It means he can't make mistakes or that people can't dislike him?????

    Marvel does worst things more times to people of all races and genders.


    Really how sad is that every debate there will be about Bishop will be derailed behind the "racism" excuse.

    Can't have a serious discussion that way
    You dont get the context of Bishop being in the X-men, a superhero team that fights discrimination with 0 prominent black men?

    Stop defining racism as the intent. Decisions and actions can have racist effects, like sabotaging the one prominent black character so that Cable can have (another) antagonist. Do I think the writers hate black people? No. Did their story take a popular black hero off the table? Yes (the only popular man the X-men have)
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 08-22-2019 at 02:56 PM.

  4. #124
    Spectacular Member Leirus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    IIRC Bishop being made Aborigine pre-dates Messiah Complex by a number of years. I think Claremont did it to link him to Gateway.

    I have always still considered Bishop African-American. His family roots are Aborigine, but IIRC he was raised in the Americas.
    Oh, I did not mind when Claremont made Gateway his grandfather or greatgrandfather. But then along came The Life and Times of Lucas Bishop, and they made him a full blooded aborigin, born in Australia, and relocated directly to a concentration camp in America. I mean, I have nothing against aboriginals, but it was a weird thing to do with a character widely perceived as african american. I think everyone gently ignored that, but... It kind of bugs me. Because if Bishop is aboriginal australian, the first male black x-man is actually Synch. And he died before graduating.

  5. #125
    BANNED fsger's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    350

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Girl Daken View Post
    You dont get the context of Bishop being in the X-men, a superhero team that fights discrimination with 0 prominent black men?

    Stop defining racism as the intent. Decisions and actions can have racist effects, like sabotaging the one prominent black character so that Cable can have (another) antagonist. Do I think the writers hate black people? No. Did their story take a popular black hero off the table? Yes (the only popular man the X-men have)
    1- I already pointed why this issue concerns me. I'm a black man, stop thinking i have to like any character just because they share my skin tone. I disliked his actions on this particular story and will keep mentioning them because that happens to every other character on the X-men. Like Emma, Cyclops, etc, etc.
    what's wrong with judging everybody under the same rules?

    2-That is what everybody keeps spamming, I have been saying why the whole deal has nothing to do with racism
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 08-22-2019 at 02:56 PM.

  6. #126
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1,735

    Default

    Again, nobody's saying you have to like Bishop. And I am not saying that the writers were racist. But I do think it's a very unfortunate story choice that plays on racist stereotypes and it did no favors for the X-Men's diverse lineup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leirus View Post
    Oh, I did not mind when Claremont made Gateway his grandfather or greatgrandfather. But then along came The Life and Times of Lucas Bishop, and they made him a full blooded aborigin, born in Australia, and relocated directly to a concentration camp in America.
    Wasn't he relocated at birth?

  7. #127
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,595

    Default

    Roberto Da Coasta wants to know your location.
    "Cable was right!"

  8. #128
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    4,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leirus View Post
    Oh, I did not mind when Claremont made Gateway his grandfather or greatgrandfather. But then along came The Life and Times of Lucas Bishop, and they made him a full blooded aborigin, born in Australia, and relocated directly to a concentration camp in America. I mean, I have nothing against aboriginals, but it was a weird thing to do with a character widely perceived as african american. I think everyone gently ignored that, but... It kind of bugs me. Because if Bishop is aboriginal australian, the first male black x-man is actually Synch. And he died before graduating.
    Sad really. And lets not forget his intro where tons of cops were pointing guns at him. And the fact he was the one continually beaten up by white kids at the school before getting killed off in a ridiculous fashion that his power could've prevented if he were being written properly.

  9. #129
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Girl Daken View Post
    You dont get the context of Bishop being in the X-men, a superhero team that fights discrimination with 0 prominent black men?

    Stop defining racism as the intent. Decisions and actions can have racist effects, like sabotaging the one prominent black character so that Cable can have (another) antagonist. Do I think the writers hate black people? No. Did their story take a popular black hero off the table? Yes (the only popular man the X-men have)
    Then your anger should lie with Jim Lee and Chris Clairemont for not introducing any black characters to the X-Men for decades, and their first attempt being a very "Super Friends" kind of racist with Storm.

    You can't have someone be immune from being used in a negative story because of their minority status. What, can Magneto not be shown doing something evil because that would be anti-Semitic? Can Wolverine not be shown doing something evil because that's bias against the elderly? Can Jean not be shown to do something evil because that would be unfair to rape survivors?
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 08-22-2019 at 02:56 PM.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  10. #130
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1,735

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    So black people in comics can only be treated with the utmost absolute respect and cannot be shown doing anything morally questionable and must be shown in the best possible light at all times?
    Of course not. I hate that when it's done for gay characters too. But the problem comes when you consider the question of where all the other black male X-Men are before, during and after that story. The answer is: Bishop is the only one. Synch has been dead since the Clinton administration; Prodigy was the C-team of kids in that era and is still not heavily featured in the books. Darwin was where? Maggott?

    Bishop is and was the only prominent black male X-Man. And they chose to make him a bloodthirsty murderer bent on shooting a white baby. When you have no other prominent black males in the book that is an issue, plain and simple.

    That's not saying these characters have to be saints or tokens. It is saying, gee, maybe it wasn't the best idea to do when there are so few leads of color in the books. Or are we going to pretend MC/Second Coming is some masterpiece of storytelling as opposed to a crap series of crossovers as part of the books spinning in place for over a decade, with a lead character (Hope) that has no point or relevance today?
    Last edited by powerpax; 08-22-2019 at 12:47 PM.

  11. #131
    Spectacular Member Leirus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    Again, nobody's saying you have to like Bishop. And I am not saying that the writers were racist. But I do think it's a very unfortunate story choice that plays on racist stereotypes and it did no favors for the X-Men's diverse lineup.



    Wasn't he relocated at birth?
    I do not really remember the issue all that well? I vaguely remember his mother giving birth, maybe even in the transport?. But at any rate, he is a completely different ethnic group. It is a bit like Sunspot. Yes he would be seen as black in the States, but he is not african american in the sense Frenzy, Synch or Triage are. Same goes for Darwin and Cecilia Reyes, who are black hispanic. Maybe I am too nitpicky with this?
    Last edited by Leirus; 08-22-2019 at 01:07 PM.

  12. #132
    Mighty Member powerpax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1,735

    Default

    No, I agree with you. I was just asking.

  13. #133
    Spectacular Member Leirus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    No, I agree with you. I was just asking.
    Yup, I think he was born just as nuclear bombs were destroying Australia, and relocated either to a guetto or a concentration camp shortly thereafter.

  14. #134
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    8,631

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Then your anger should lie with Jim Lee and Chris Clairemont for not introducing any black characters to the X-Men for decades, and their first attempt being a very "Super Friends" kind of racist with Storm.

    You can't have someone be immune from being used in a negative story because of their minority status. What, can Magneto not be shown doing something evil because that would be anti-Semitic? Can Wolverine not be shown doing something evil because that's bias against the elderly? Can Jean not be shown to do something evil because that would be unfair to rape survivors?
    Putting the blame on Lee and Claremont is very LOL

    Like people have been saying many of black males on X-men have been killed or just on limbo.
    So why carey and company didn't took a black male from limbo or created another?

    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post

    That's not saying these characters have to be saints or tokens. It is saying, gee, maybe it wasn't the best idea to do when there are so few leads of color in the books. Or are we going to pretend MC/Second Coming is some masterpiece of storytelling as opposed to a crap series of crossovers as part of the books spinning in place for over a decade, with a lead character (Hope) that has no point or relevance today?
    OG Cable is dead. So yeah this story destroyed a black character for ntohing
    Last edited by spirit2011; 08-22-2019 at 04:25 PM.

  15. #135
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    4,508

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Putting the blame on Lee and Claremont is very LOL

    Like people have been saying many of black males on X-men have been killed or just on limbo.
    So why carey and company didn't took a black male from limbo or created another?



    OG Cable is dead. So yeah this story destroyed a black character for ntohing
    Isn't "destroyed" a lofty term for someone who was just in X-Men Red and Bobby's solo in large roles, was the lead of his own Age of X-Man book, and is still a heroic member of the X-Men, and not a single soul has even begin to mention Hope or Cable to him?
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •