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  1. #1
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    Default Some remarks about Kryptonians

    Hello,

    1. General Remark about Kryptonians

    I am a big Young Justice (Comic-Series) Fan, especially Conner,Bart,Tim and Cassie.
    I like Conner, but I dont like the portrayal of the Kryptonians in the DC Universum.

    I mean we have many Kryptonians,but they all have the same power sets: Jor El, Kal El, Kon El,Kara Zor El,Jon El,Zod...
    I liked much more the Dragon Ball Idea: In Dragon Ball we also have many Sayajins but they have different powers, even their powers are also based on an unique source: Ki.
    This would have been a cool Idea also for the DC Kryptonians whose power source is the Yellow or Blue Sun.

    I mean basic Kryptonian Powers for every Kryptonian (Super-Strenght,Flying,Kryptonian Senses,Invulnerability....) BUT!! instead of Heat Vision and Super/Freeze-Breathe just developing other variations of solar powered long range attacks.
    We have already seen that Kryptonians could use also other body parts: Kara Zor El,Clark and Jon showed this while doing the Solar Flare.
    OR you could also change and use Superwoman (Lana Lang) who had Electric Powers like the Blue Electric Superman.


    For Conner its simple: Kryptonian Powers, but replace Freeze Breathe and Super-Breathe with TTK (because he can control whatever he touches so it would be simple for him to create wind etc.), if he has to wield something he can also use TTK
    and instead of Heat Vision as long range attack he could use something like the Galick Canon of Vegeta.

    For Jonathan, Kryptonian Powers, but use the Superwoman Concept on him. So Kryptonian Powers and his Heat Vision,Super Breathe and Freeze Breathe replaced by electric attacks and control of the electrons around him. So more like her https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Lana_Lang_(Prime_Earth)


    Its also interesting: Dragonball has Son Goku, Son Gohan and Son Goten
    DC has Kal El, Kon El and Jonathan

    To bad that Jonathan is older now, because with young Jonathan it would fit perfectly.

    Another Idea for Conner which I like would be Kryptonian Powers, but replace Freeze Breathe,Super Breath with the Telekinesis of NEW52 Superboy and also his Telepathy..

    So you would have 3 Kryptonians with Invulnerability,Flying....like every Kryptonian (Strenght Level based on their age) and individual powers, which makes them different, but without making one weaker or stronger, just different.

    2. Conners Costume

    I personally like it that they get back to a Version of the old costume...I personally didnt like the TT Costume, BUT I would like to see Conner in a mix of TT and YJ Costume..Like Arnold Schwarzenegger in Terminator....Use the black/red Shirt or the Fleischer Shirt of NEW52 Superman with Jeans,Boots,Leather Jacket and Pilot Sunglasses...

  2. #2
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    I don't care for varied powers amongst Kryptonians. I don't mind there being the occasional meta-Kryptonian who has powers not tied to their being Kryptonian (like a Kryptonian with psionics), but to me if you start varying the powers then why make them a race at all. If you want a Superman with TTK in place of breathing powers, for example, then make them a one-off like Conner who is a hybrid or a new race like the Argonians, Thoronites, Daxamites , …

    Personally the only major change I would introduce is removing the Red Sun weakness as a catch-all. I'd make the Kryptonian powers the result of various interacting factors so that some powers are inherent and others are conditional.

    On Krypton the gravity was heavier so your average human would require all their energy to take a single step. A top level athlete might be able to walk a foot before being exhausted. In the same way a Kryptonian under Earth gravity even if the sun was absent would be able to run a marathon without getting winded. Kryptonian senses would enable them to see bands of radiation (infra-red, alpha/beta/gamma) that humans can't see again in ANY environment. Stuff like that.

    The changes in the strength of energy they get under various stars would explain why their tissue is able to resist more damage on Earth than on Krypton. So under the red sun Rao they can still be cut by a sharp steel blade (one that would slice through you or me with a mere tap), under an orange star the blade would have to be moving a hundred times faster to do the same damage, and under Earth's "yellow" sun the balde would crumple against their skin. So there would be a scaling effect for some of their abilities, but a Kryptonaian would still have more power than you or me even under a red sun.

  3. #3
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I don't care for varied powers amongst Kryptonians. I don't mind there being the occasional meta-Kryptonian who has powers not tied to their being Kryptonian (like a Kryptonian with psionics), but to me if you start varying the powers then why make them a race at all. If you want a Superman with TTK in place of breathing powers, for example, then make them a one-off like Conner who is a hybrid or a new race like the Argonians, Thoronites, Daxamites , …
    I agree, except I'd go further and say I really don't want meta Kryptonians.

    Personally the only major change I would introduce is removing the Red Sun weakness as a catch-all. I'd make the Kryptonian powers the result of various interacting factors so that some powers are inherent and others are conditional.
    That is an intriguing idea, but a bit complex, which I expect to lead to a lack of consistency/logical reactions and for it to become a "whatever the plot calls for" weakness, which I don't care for. If there was more thought, and strong consistency, I'd be a fan.

  4. #4
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    DB is brought up and eh... for one thing ki is far from unique as a concept and it had been specifically used in comics before DB. Between the I Ching character appearances you can even argue D.C. had it in the 70s. Secondly, since ki is living energy, it's not at all unique in DB. Do Saiyans have different powers... or just different techniques? The latter from all I know, now matter how unique.

    Kryptonians manifesting different powers might be interesting if it wasn't so redundant. Superman has more forgotten powers than most characters ever possess (chiefly a natural bio aura and malleable face), and there's typically room to bring some back if necessary. 90s Supergirl and Superboy had entirely different power sets due to their respective natures so along with Steel and AC the whole "family" was unique. New 52 Superboy was different still and Kara initially had her sonic scream and solar flare (one a forgotten Superman power and the other a power he would get through Johns) through augmented genetics. Zod's background completely affects the usage of his powers, while Faora relied on her crazy martial arts. Superman himself has a wealth of applications for the same old powers (vision and sound based most often) on top of his own martial arts, forgotten or downplayed psychic training, utilization of reality bending will, sundipping, and maybe some facet I'm forgetting.
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  5. #5
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    Hmm, if anything Jon and Conner should have less powers that a pure Kryptonian or a at a lesser level given they are Kryptonian/Human hybrids. After all, while Kryptonian physiology gets powered up by solar energy, humans do not.

    On a side note, DC really needs to enforce what the native Kryptonian environment should be. If the planet is bigger or higher gravity than Earth, then Kryptonians would be naturally denser and stronger than humans in an Earth-like environment even w/o a solar power up. Maybe even make Superman might little bit more powerful under a yellow sun as his body grew up under a yellow sun and has learned to process it more efficiently.

    Anyway, there has been some variation in super powers among inhabitants of different red planets thought super-strength and flight seem to be common.

    Just my 2 cents.

  6. #6
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Hmm, if anything Jon and Conner should have less powers that a pure Kryptonian or a at a lesser level given they are Kryptonian/Human hybrids. After all, while Kryptonian physiology gets powered up by solar energy, humans do not.
    My preference would be Jon less powerful and Kon back to his origins as a human with altered genes and no Kryptonian DNA with only tactile telekinesis. But those ships have sailed. Kon is half-Clark and Jon has hybrid vigor.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by raidensix View Post
    Hmm, if anything Jon and Conner should have less powers that a pure Kryptonian or a at a lesser level given they are Kryptonian/Human hybrids. After all, while Kryptonian physiology gets powered up by solar energy, humans do not.

    On a side note, DC really needs to enforce what the native Kryptonian environment should be. If the planet is bigger or higher gravity than Earth, then Kryptonians would be naturally denser and stronger than humans in an Earth-like environment even w/o a solar power up. Maybe even make Superman might little bit more powerful under a yellow sun as his body grew up under a yellow sun and has learned to process it more efficiently.

    Anyway, there has been some variation in super powers among inhabitants of different red planets thought super-strength and flight seem to be common.

    Just my 2 cents.
    You can also go the DB way and say that Hybrids are stronger than pure Kryptonians.

    In Conners Case you can also say that the human Genes were altered so that the human genes are basically so much altered that he is a META-HUMAN-KRYPTONIAN.
    So you can basically say that his human cells also absorb sunlight..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    My preference would be Jon less powerful and Kon back to his origins as a human with altered genes and no Kryptonian DNA with only tactile telekinesis. But those ships have sailed. Kon is half-Clark and Jon has hybrid vigor.
    Thank God, the human TTK only Superboy was a real loser with uninteresting powers.
    Worst Version of Conner with to much flaws..

    Thank God Johns saved him..

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    DB is brought up and eh... for one thing ki is far from unique as a concept and it had been specifically used in comics before DB. Between the I Ching character appearances you can even argue D.C. had it in the 70s. Secondly, since ki is living energy, it's not at all unique in DB. Do Saiyans have different powers... or just different techniques? The latter from all I know, now matter how unique.
    Different techniques, since the Kame Kame Ha is a technique which Son Gokus first Master has thougt him and also to his other students.

    But also in my case this would only be different techniques-and the Galick Canon would be basically only a Variation of the Heat Vision which is possible since Solar Flare is also possible and solar flare comes out of the whole body.

    And in Johns Case you can take the Superwoman (Lana Lang) as blueprint. She was also basically a Kryptonian-Human Hybrid.

  9. #9
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    I personally also dont understand the problem with Hybrids becoming stronger than Kryptonians.
    In Dragon Ball we also have Son Goku,Vegeta as full Sayajins and Trunks,Son Gohan,Son Goten...with the possibility to become stronger and its no ptoblem.

    I also prefer the Z Fighters System to the JL, the JL is to dominant and suppress the TT,Titans and YJ.
    As seen as when the Titans disbanded.

    I like the Dragon Ball system more, because in DB Son Gohan, Son Goten, Trunks etc. are more unique and arent forced to be similar to be like Vegeta or Son Goku.

    And I also like the concept much more that allows Son Gohan,Trunks,Son Goten.. to be part of the Z Fighters and play BIG roles.
    For example in the Boo Saga Gohan,Trunks and Goten play a big role and are also trained and seen so.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I personally also dont understand the problem with Hybrids becoming stronger than Kryptonians.
    In Dragon Ball we also have Son Goku,Vegeta as full Sayajins and Trunks,Son Gohan,Son Goten...with the possibility to become stronger and its no ptoblem.

    I also prefer the Z Fighters System to the JL, the JL is to dominant and suppress the TT,Titans and YJ.
    As seen as when the Titans disbanded.

    I like the Dragon Ball system more, because in DB Son Gohan, Son Goten, Trunks etc. are more unique and arent forced to be similar to be like Vegeta or Son Goku.

    And I also like the concept much more that allows Son Gohan,Trunks,Son Goten.. to be part of the Z Fighters and play BIG roles.
    For example in the Boo Saga Gohan,Trunks and Goten play a big role and are also trained and seen so.
    Applying the Z Fighters system doesn't do much good as the only ones with big roles are the Saiyans and even then Vegeta and Goku get the lion's share. If you go with that system for the JL you're basically giving the majority of good moments to Superman.

  11. #11
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Thank God, the human TTK only Superboy was a real loser with uninteresting powers.
    Worst Version of Conner with to much flaws..

    Thank God Johns saved him..
    Completely rewrote him, certainly. Took away everything distinctive about him, to me. He wound up with Clark's powers, Clark's hometown, and even Clark's parents. And a Luthor hanging around. Though that's not all on Johns, I don't think (haven't checked writer on all of those). It's a big change - many loved it. I hated it. Mind you, I really dislike retconned-personal-connections to villains in general. Really tired of every hero having a villain that's deeply personal from before they became a hero, and retconned ones are worse. The first time I saw it (unretconned), it was great, but now I'm just way past burnt out. I kinda feel the same way about "sympathetic villains" - it was fine the first few times, but I'm happy to see mustache-twirlers now. Sympathetic villains also aren't sustainable - I lose all sympathy after they do enough bad things and just get irritated that I feel like they writer is trying to make feel kindly towards them.

    I thought he was growing really well until Kesel left the title and then Kon left Hawaii. I will say, however, that long before Johns doing that retcon, there was what I'm told very a very bad run by Kelly. My sister got two issues in and quit reading because Kon was such a brat, she though. I quit after the move to Cadmus, but can see problems even earlier than that when Marz decided to change directions. The Superboy-not-aging element introduced some interesting drama, but not the sort that I feel could be sustainable long-term (no more than 5 real-world years, but it needed to be long enough to make an impact, too). The Kesel Hawaii years were my fave.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 08-21-2019 at 06:00 AM.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Different techniques, since the Kame Kame Ha is a technique which Son Gokus first Master has thougt him and also to his other students.

    But also in my case this would only be different techniques-and the Galick Canon would be basically only a Variation of the Heat Vision which is possible since Solar Flare is also possible and solar flare comes out of the whole body.

    And in Johns Case you can take the Superwoman (Lana Lang) as blueprint. She was also basically a Kryptonian-Human Hybrid.
    My inner Dragon Ball fanboy just broke. On so many levels.

    Anyway (trying not to focus on the above), I don't see the problem with Jon and Conner both having Kryptonian powers, both being (albeit different types) hybrids and all. Conner can, if he doesn't have the full blown powers due to being a clone, still have TTK. And Jon can be his father's son, growing into his powers as he ages. The only difference, he has his dad around (I just cannot acknowledge Bendis' "Jon" as the real thing).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    My inner Dragon Ball fanboy just broke. On so many levels.

    Anyway (trying not to focus on the above), I don't see the problem with Jon and Conner both having Kryptonian powers, both being (albeit different types) hybrids and all. Conner can, if he doesn't have the full blown powers due to being a clone, still have TTK. And Jon can be his father's son, growing into his powers as he ages. The only difference, he has his dad around (I just cannot acknowledge Bendis' "Jon" as the real thing).
    I personally liked Johns solution:
    Conner with Kryptonian Powers+TTK and in Titans of Tomorrow and Sins of Youth we also saw that his TTK will also develop.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I personally liked Johns solution:
    Conner with Kryptonian Powers+TTK and in Titans of Tomorrow and Sins of Youth we also saw that his TTK will also develop.
    I can live with that.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Applying the Z Fighters system doesn't do much good as the only ones with big roles are the Saiyans and even then Vegeta and Goku get the lion's share. If you go with that system for the JL you're basically giving the majority of good moments to Superman.
    It depends on the Arc.
    You also have others like Piccolo,Muten Roshi,Tenshin Han,Krilin,Yamchu...in the tournament they also had Freezer in their team.
    What I personally like about it that you dont have such a strict system, but they let also the young ones come in the team and the team develops.
    Young ones like Son Gohan and Son Goten grow into the team, like in the Boo Saga.

    And you mean to the KRYPTONIANS, not Superman, because this would also mean that Kon El and Jon will play a big role.
    But this will also be true for the WONDER,BAT-,FLASH-Family to.

    So basically Johns did it with his TT Run where Kon El for example grew into the first League while fighting against Superboy Prime.

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