Some remarks about Kryptonians

[Masterff]

Completely rewrote him, certainly. Took away everything distinctive about him, to me. He wound up with Clark's powers, Clark's hometown, and even Clark's parents. And a Luthor hanging around. Though that's not all on Johns, I don't think (haven't checked writer on all of those). It's a big change - many loved it. I hated it. Mind you, I really dislike retconned-personal-connections to villains in general. Really tired of every hero having a villain that's deeply personal from before they became a hero, and retconned ones are worse. The first time I saw it (unretconned), it was great, but now I'm just way past burnt out. I kinda feel the same way about "sympathetic villains" - it was fine the first few times, but I'm happy to see mustache-twirlers now. Sympathetic villains also aren't sustainable - I lose all sympathy after they do enough bad things and just get irritated that I feel like they writer is trying to make feel kindly towards them.

I thought he was growing really well until Kesel left the title and then Kon left Hawaii. I will say, however, that long before Johns doing that retcon, there was what I'm told very a very bad run by Kelly. My sister got two issues in and quit reading because Kon was such a brat, she though. I quit after the move to Cadmus, but can see problems even earlier than that when Marz decided to change directions. The Superboy-not-aging element introduced some interesting drama, but not the sort that I feel could be sustainable long-term (no more than 5 real-world years, but it needed to be long enough to make an impact, too). The Kesel Hawaii years were my fave.

I liked the Hawaii Years to, BUT I hated many things:

1. Only TTK:
a) this made him weak against Fire,Gas,Electricity...and worked only when he was conscious..it made him much weaker than Superman which I didnt like
b) TTK is boring: Its ok as Extra-Power, BUT!!! TTK was only there to replace Kryptonian Powers, it had NO!! other important or cool Effect (yes there were some extras, but NOTHING was really crucial or superior to Supermans Powers).
c) There was the mission with the wave where his TTK could have been crucial, BUT his TTK didnt work on water..

2. Attitude:
ok this came later, but I really HATED the stories where he was reduced to a clown like when he played Batman and had a paper over his head etc.
At this time he annoyed me and also in the Comics Batman lost the respect and told him to stay away from Batgirl etc.etc.

I didnt completely like his attitude in TT, BUT at least he earned the respect of the others and wasnt anymore this clown.

I dont say Johns Version is perfect, BUT I liked that he became more powerful, more mature and also climbed up the ladder by fighting against Brainiac,Doomsday Clone, Superboy Prime etc.


If we are talking only Power based than the Kessel Superboy would be my last Favorite Version of Conner.
I liked even the NEW52 Superboy more than the Kessel one (POWER BASED).

If NEW52 Superboy would have had Kryptonian Super-Strenght (based on his age) and Kryptonian Invulnerability, than he would have been almost perfect.
I mean his Telekinesis and Telepathy gave him some interesting possibilities.


I personally would like to see the TT Superboy with a mix of the Johns Superboy and Hawaiian Superboy attitude.
Johns Superboy was to timid,to silent,to slow for me while the Hawaiian was to immature for me.

[manwhohaseverything]

It depends on the Arc.
You also have others like Piccolo,Muten Roshi,Tenshin Han,Krilin,Yamchu...in the tournament they also had Freezer in their team.
What I personally like about it that you dont have such a strict system, but they let also the young ones come in the team and the team develops.
Young ones like Son Gohan and Son Goten grow into the team, like in the Boo Saga.

And you mean to the KRYPTONIANS, not Superman, because this would also mean that Kon El and Jon will play a big role.
But this will also be true for the WONDER,BAT-,FLASH-Family to.

So basically Johns did it with his TT Run where Kon El for example grew into the first League while fighting against Superboy Prime.

That isn't true. And you know it. The humans are so far behind they not even considered a competition. The anime team practically hates tien. Poor guy who trains his entire life got beaten by roshi. Krilin got eliminated first. Piccolo is used basically as a nanny. Yamcha, don't get me started on him.
Tournament was good only for the androids, goku and vegeta. Poor hit! Got no chance to shine.
Roshi is the only one who is given a push. Even that is because of goku connection. If Vegeta wasn't fan favourite he would be left in the dust as well. Freeza is also popular.
Young ones goten, trunks are practically background characters,now.after over pushing them to super saiyans. Gohan gets no moment worthy of the guy that beat cell.
Dragon ball is a goku solo performance with recurring characters . Vegeta just became an exception and was added to the performance due to fans. Dragon ball isn't one piece where side characters are given development.

Anyways, back to the topic. I would love it if jon has the power fluctuations. Jon should also be good at using weapons and hand to hand combat .I also want clark to given healing factor like the hulk or Wolverine. It would fit the character since he came back from the dead. Kara should have better solar metabolism which means she can store solar energy faster. Conner can have ttk.
Zod should be tactical genius. He has the ability to adapt to environments faster.

[Masterff]

That isn't true. And you know it. The humans are so far behind they not even considered a competition. The anime team practically hates tien. Poor guy who trains his entire life got beaten by roshi. Krilin got eliminated first. Piccolo is used basically as a nanny. Yamcha, don't get me started on him.
Tournament was good only for the androids, goku and vegeta. Poor hit! Got no chance to shine.
Roshi is the only one who is given a push. Even that is because of goku connection. If Vegeta wasn't fan favourite he would be left in the dust as well. Freeza is also popular.
Young ones goten, trunks are practically background characters,now.after over pushing them to super saiyans. Gohan gets no moment worthy of the guy that beat cell.
Dragon ball is a goku solo performance with recurring characters . Vegeta just became an exception and was added to the performance due to fans. Dragon ball isn't one piece where side characters are given development.

Anyways, back to the topic. I would love it if jon has the power fluctuations. Jon should also be good at using weapons and hand to hand combat .I also want clark to given healing factor like the hulk or Wolverine. It would fit the character since he came back from the dead. Kara should have better solar metabolism which means she can store solar energy faster. Conner can have ttk.
Zod should be tactical genius. He has the ability to adapt to environments faster.

Difficult:
Trunks had his moments:
-learned very fast to become a Super Sayajin (faster than his Father and Goku)
-As he first appeared as adult in Dragonball Z he destroyed Freezer and King Cold easily
-As adult Trunks returned in his timeline he destroyed Cell,C18 and C17
-In the future Trunks Saga of Dragon Ball Super he delivered the final blow to the new Zamasu

The Gap between Goku,Vegeta and Trunks,Gohan,Goten happened because Goku and Vegeta trained and dedicated their life to fighting while Gohan stopped training to learn and Trunks became the president of the Company of his mother family...


Not just TTK-Full TK so Conner becomes basically H'El without Chronokinesis and Telepathy.
So he can use the TTK also to increase his strenght and speed (like Martian Manhunter did and also NEW52 Superboy did when he fought against Martian Manhunter)
Also able to shield himself and others. This TTK Shield also makes him more durable than Clark,Jonathan,Kara....especially because it shields himself also from magic like the Titans of Tomorrow Conner showed when he fought against Shazam of the Future..

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

I like Ttk or at least limited TK mixed with lesser Kryptonian powers...

My perfect connor would be old school GA superman "more powerful then a locamotive, able to leap a building in a single bound, enhanced senses, and it takes a bursting shell to break his skin" but enhanced by TK to give flight better super strength...but also allows him to "feel around, even through some objects" take apart things, cling to surfaces ect..

No heat or x ray vision and he is more vulnerable to energy or gas because TK wont work on it BUT TK work on magic, and kryptonite.

Give him a minor other psychic power like a limited pre/post cog like spirit reading objects he touches..

[Masterff]

I like Ttk or at least limited TK mixed with lesser Kryptonian powers...

My perfect connor would be old school GA superman "more powerful then a locamotive, able to leap a building in a single bound, enhanced senses, and it takes a bursting shell to break his skin" but enhanced by TK to give flight better super strength...but also allows him to "feel around, even through some objects" take apart things, cling to surfaces ect..

No heat or x ray vision and he is more vulnerable to energy or gas because TK wont work on it BUT TK work on magic, and kryptonite.

Give him a minor other psychic power like a limited pre/post cog like spirit reading objects he touches..

Absolutely dont like it...ESPECIALLY since we now have Konan Keng,Jonathan Kent etc. who are probably more powerful than Clark himself.

https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Kong_Kenan_(Prime_Earth) Look how many powers he has.

It has NO SENSE to put so much limits than to a character like Conner who has more history than Jonathan,Konan etc.

I personally like the H'El Version without chronokinesis, so FULL Kryptonian Powers with FULL TK and maybe replacing heat vision with the Omega Beams of Darkseid (like Brutaal).

[Masterff]

Or also Tempest:
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Garth_(New_Earth)
https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Garth_(Prime_Earth)

Tempest, Kenan Kong etc. have such a MASSIVE List of Powers that also Kon El deserves a huge list and not only the abilities which everyone possesses.


As Alternative I would like to see:

Kryptonian Powers
Super-Strenght (Doomsday Level)
Flying
Invulnerability, Self Sustenance (like Kryptonian)
Super-Speed

Senses:
X-Ray Vision
ability to learn languages,scan things by touching it

Super-Powers:
-Electrokinesis (with Electron Manipulation) [like Electric Superman, shooting lightning, creating tractor beams, manipulate things)
-Cryokinesis
-Energy Fields

Instead of only gaining powers from sun he can absorb also electricty, other radiation etc.

I really liked the Electric Superman
http://supermanblue.blogspot.com/200...eaknesses.html
I only didnt like that he wasnt solid and needed a containment suit and that he was vulnerable when human.

[Tzigone]

It has NO SENSE to put so much limits than to a character like Conner who has more history than Jonathan,Konan etc.

See, I'm just not a fan of him as Kryptonian. I love his old version, with TTK only and think it makes him a lot more distinctive and less derivative. But, even so, I just don't get the desire that almost everyone seems to have for their faves to be the most powerful. I liked Cyborg as not a motherbox, I don't want Clark back to pre-Crisis strength (or to be immortal, especially if other Kryptonians aren't). I don't want Supergirl (or any other Kryptonian character) having different or more powers than Superman/any other Kryptonian. I prefer the idea of Jon as less powerful than Clark for being half-Kryptonian. I don't want the animal-mimicking heroes to be immortal. I don't think Wonder Woman was not strong enough in her movie. I don't think Superman should be anywhere near as fast as Flash. I like limits. But even if I didn't, how long a character has been around should not logically have anything at all to do with how powerful a character is - that's something that makes no sense to me.

[Masterff]

See, I'm just not a fan of him as Kryptonian. I love his old version. But, even so, I just don't get the desire that almost everyone seems to have for their faves to be the most powerful. I liked Cyborg as not a motherbox, I don't want Clark back to pre-Crisis strength (or to be immortal, especially if other Kryptonians aren't). I don't want Supergirl (or any other Kryptonian character) having different or more power than Superman. I prefer the idea of Jon as less powerful than Clark for being half-Kryptonian. I don't want the animal-mimicking heroes to be immortal. I don't think Wonder Woman was not strong enough in her movie. I don't think Superman should be anywhere near as fast as Flash. I like limits. But even if I didn't, how long a character has been around should not logically have anything at all to do with how powerful a character is - that's something that makes no sense to me.

Its NOT just the desire to have the Favorite as most powerful one.

Its to make the character INTERESTING!!!
Conner with just Super-Strenght etc. would be just a completely RANDOM character.

If you replace Heat Vision,Freeze Breath....than replace it with something interesting like ELEKTROKINESIS,CRYOKINESIS...

Then we could also take Dianas ability to fly away,take Aquamans Trident etc. away...

[Tzigone]

Its NOT just the desire to have the Favorite as most powerful one.

Its to make the character INTERESTING!!!
Conner with just Super-Strenght etc. would be just a completely RANDOM character.

If you replace Heat Vision,Freeze Breath....than replace it with something interesting like ELEKTROKINESIS,CRYOKINESIS...

Or replace all the super powers listed with something like TACTILE TELEKINESIS? That's what he was originally, and I think that was so much better (I know the person you responded to wanted him with Golden Age Superman, which there's no reason for, it's true - I just like different limits for him).

And yes, I've been on some character appreciation thread and other threads, and many characters certainly have a segment of their fanbase that just want them to be the most powerful character in DC. I think maybe it comes from equating power level to status - how many books, how much exposure, etc.? Not sure. Could just be wanting to give their faves "more" of everything because they are faves.

I'm a weirdo - I think the many of the Bats are overpowered these days. Bruce is too rich, and many have too much strength/ability to actually be a normal human being (they do things humans couldn't actually do).

What I really think would be great is if powers were consistent. Strength and speed, particularly, vary as the plot demands sometimes, and it's problematic for me.

[Masterff]

Or replace all the super powers listed with something like TACTILE TELEKINESIS? That's what he was originally, and I think that was so much better (I know the person you responded to wanted him with Golden Age Superman, which there's no reason for, it's true - I just like different limits for him).

And yes, I've been on some character appreciation thread and other threads, and many characters certainly have a segment of their fanbase that just want them to be the most powerful character in DC. I think maybe it comes from equating power level to status - how many books, how much exposure, etc.? Not sure. Could just be wanting to give their faves "more" of everything because they are faves.

I'm a weirdo - I think the many of the Bats are overpowered these days. Bruce is too rich, and many have too much strength/ability to actually be a normal human being (they do things humans couldn't actually do).

What I really think would be great is if powers were consistent. Strength and speed, particularly, vary as the plot demands sometimes, and it's problematic for me.

Speaking about overpowering, I think Aquaman and Wonder Woman are much to strong.
I rather see them in Kon El (Pre-Flashpoint) League.

I NEVER liked the Kesel TTK only Version of Superboy. He was funny to read, because of his attitude, but way to limited and his TTK was so incredible limited that he never did something cool with it.
I am really happy that Johns gave him real Kryptonian Powers and get rid of the TTK only Superboy.
Nothing from the TTK Superboy was really so cool or powerful that I thougt: "Wow"
The TTK Superboy was only a watered down Superman with NO advantages to Superman, but only EXTREMELY limitations.

I have many Comics with Superboy at home and I have to say that I ALWAYS read the Johns TT ones, because I liked the attitude of Kesels Superboy, but his powers were boring and to limited.

If Telekinesis than NEW52 SUPERBOY!!! who was much better than the Kesel Version.
I LOVED the NEW52 Superboy, If he would have had also normal Kryptonian Super-Strenght and normal Kryptonian Invulnerability he would have been awesome. HE really showed how Telekinesis Superboy could work.
He actually did cool things with his Telekinesis:
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthre...perboy_new_52/
https://www.reddit.com/r/respectthre...e_kent_new_52/

Kryptonian Invulnerability+Kryptonian Super-Strenght+Kryptonian Flying+Kryptonian Senses+FULL TK (NEW52 Superboy)-Limited Telepathy (NEW52 Superboy) would be AWESOME.

Alternatively: Cryokinesis+Electrokinesis+Kryptonian Strenght+Kryptonian Invulnerability+Flying would be cool.


Anyway like I said above characters like Konan Keng,Tempest...are incredible powerful and have COOL and INTERESTING powers, so I am really glad that we dont have the TTK only Superboy anymore, because else I would have to switch and read Tempest or Konan Keng.