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  1. #1
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    Default Kryptonian powers need to be toned down a bit...

    Never got into the "ability to move planets" level, but still should be impressive. For example: strength level for an average Kryptonian should have the 100 ton multiplier, when compared to an average humans. So, if the average bench press for a human is 100 pounds, your average Kryptonian should lift 100 tons. So Clark Kent, who could bench press 200 pounds as a human, could bench press 200 tons as a Kryptonian. Still impressive w/o being ridiculous. Solar dips would increase the rating, but those events should be rare. Opinions? Way off base?

  2. #2
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Marvel and certain anime have gotten away from the number side of it because it's a pretty massive case of writing yourself into a corner. The old "100 ton" thing especially because most colossal feats, even the ones we take for granted now, require strength well beyond lifting 100 tons in any sort of way. 200 tons is like... scooping up a building. If Superman is the mightiest hero on earth then one building pushing his limit doesn't seem great these days. The empire state building is 365000 tons. Sure, if you can't write a character who "only" lifts an ocean liner you probably have a dilemma of your own creativity, but this is Superman.

    More to your question, the most definitive answer I've seen is that Superman can lift whatever he believes he can. That could go up to planets except most writers these days don't have the "nerve" to depict a planet as if it were a giant marble. There's also the flipside, writers can and have written themselves into a corner by having him do something tremendous, like surpassing light speed, then having to deal with some human villain. I think whoever writes or edits needs to just have a rule of thumb reference book for their material.
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  3. #3

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    The problem isn't that superman can move planets. The problem is he does it because he gets power from the sun. Clark outputs more power than a hundred suns. Which is stupid. They should just say it is because of his physiology and relentless effort that superman got that strong and allows him to become stronger even.His physiology can be tied to the harshness of his native planets gravity, atmosphere.. Etc. Golden age explanation was way better if you ask me.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    His power level is whatever the story requires it to be, and I’ve made my peace with that. They’ve toned his power down at times and I’ve greatly enjoyed some of those stories. They’ve made him even more powerful at other times and I’ve enjoyed those. So at this point I don’t really obsess over “feats” of power levels.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    His power level is whatever the story requires it to be, and I’ve made my peace with that. They’ve toned his power down at times and I’ve greatly enjoyed some of those stories. They’ve made him even more powerful at other times and I’ve enjoyed those. So at this point I don’t really obsess over “feats” of power levels.
    As i said, powerlevel is not the problem. The complaint is that superman's powers come from an external source. Not by his own efforts. For example, all might, goku gets stronger because he puts in extra effort and beyond.
    Superman feels like a strong man who doesn't work out.which really takes the air out of the character. Sure, genetics help strong men but they work tirelessly to hone their strength. Clark needs more training montages. He needs to get his ass beat to bloody pulp more often.
    Sun dipping just destroys the strong man aspect of the character which has been there before sun power source was introduced.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    As i said, powerlevel is not the problem. The complaint is that superman's powers come from an external source. Not by his own efforts. For example, all might, goku gets stronger because he puts in extra effort and beyond.
    Superman feels like a strong man who doesn't work out.which really takes the air out of the character. Sure, genetics help strong men but they work tirelessly to hone their strength. Clark needs more training montages. He needs to get his ass beat to bloody pulp more often.
    Sun dipping just destroys the strong man aspect of the character which has been there before sun power source was introduced.
    I wouldn’t mind Clark training under a Red Sun hyperbolic chamber lol. But we’ve already seen time and time again that Clark is still a badass, powers or no. I also find the complaint about Superman’s powers to be odd. Where are the complaints that Peter Parker doesn’t train to get his powers? He just got bit and became super strong. Steve Rogers got a super steroid and became superhuman. Tony Stark puts on a suit, dude doesn’t train at all. Batman is a trust fund brat who gets his wealth from his parents and appropriates Wayne Co resources for himself.

    Clark does train himself in the use of his powers, and I wouldn’t mind more showings of Clark training himself to use his powers. But complaints about Supes powers coming from an external source feel like a strawman to me.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Whenever you put limits on your heroes, there becomes a lot of pressure from within as well as externally to amp things up. For better or for worse, people are going to see what Superman can do, then compare that to what the Marvel heroes can do, the anime heroes, etc. In 1940, it probably seemed neat for a mass commercial fictional character to be more powerful than a locomotive, but now it's harder to get hype unless your Supes still stands out next to other pop culture heroes.

    I personally like a relatively powerful Superman, and I can even live with upper end Supes, but I think for decades-long continuity that starts to break stories if he's too powerful.

  8. #8
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    Never got into the "ability to move planets" level, but still should be impressive. For example: strength level for an average Kryptonian should have the 100 ton multiplier, when compared to an average humans. So, if the average bench press for a human is 100 pounds, your average Kryptonian should lift 100 tons. So Clark Kent, who could bench press 200 pounds as a human, could bench press 200 tons as a Kryptonian. Still impressive w/o being ridiculous. Solar dips would increase the rating, but those events should be rare. Opinions? Way off base?
    So you're ok with someone flying into the Sun and instead of being vaporized gets a powerup; but lifting more than 200 tons is ridiculous?

  9. #9
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    I personally like my Superman ridiculously powerful. I think part of thepoint of superman is to push him beyond imaginable limits.

  10. #10
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    If a story is engaging and interesting to you then the powers should be little more than fun dressing to make you "oh, damn, that's pretty cool" for a moment before you go back to pondering the story at hand.

    If the powers and their limits become the story--like basketball stats, then I think the point is being missed. DC has crowned Superman its physical apex, and that can logistically mean whatever depending on the situation, but it's more so the sentiment that's the key. Flash is fastest, but again, what that looks like from comic to comic is fluid, but the idea remains.

    Try not too put too much stock into the exact numbers outside of just having fun calculating the inherently fluid stats Death Battle style.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I wouldn’t mind Clark training under a Red Sun hyperbolic chamber lol. But we’ve already seen time and time again that Clark is still a badass, powers or no. I also find the complaint about Superman’s powers to be odd. Where are the complaints that Peter Parker doesn’t train to get his powers? He just got bit and became super strong. Steve Rogers got a super steroid and became superhuman. Tony Stark puts on a suit, dude doesn’t train at all. Batman is a trust fund brat who gets his wealth from his parents and appropriates Wayne Co resources for himself.

    Clark does train himself in the use of his powers, and I wouldn’t mind more showings of Clark training himself to use his powers. But complaints about Supes powers coming from an external source feel like a strawman to me.
    But, those guys do have to adapt and train. Not to mention they are almost always underdogs.cap went from fighting wars to taking on aliens in the movie. Clark simply doesn't do any of that.

    Anyhow i am not arguing how about Superman got powers. But the way sun is used.i am arguing against sun being used to give superman boosts during fights. It takes away the sports man like quality of superman.i just prefer clark donning a pair of boxing gloves now and then.

    You see alot of people find goku and other characters as inspiration for their training. But, i have never seen people say the same for superman. And superman at his core is supposed to be a strong man.

    Allmight has same abilities as superman. Allmight's victories feels like his own. He doesn't get boost from the sun or anything. He has to dig deeper inside to give it his all and plus ultra. With superman whenever such event occurs superman simply recharges from the sun.

    That is why the golden age explanation of gravity and superman being like insects that can lift higher is very much appealing to me. There superman can get stronger and stronger with training and not because how much sun-protein shake he had.superman feels like he is taking substances for his strength, rather than train to get maximum output from his physiology and genetics .

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    But, those guys do have to adapt and train. Not to mention they are almost always underdogs.cap went from fighting wars to taking on aliens in the movie. Clark simply doesn't do any of that.

    Anyhow i am not arguing how about Superman got powers. But the way sun is used.i am arguing against sun being used to give superman boosts during fights. It takes away the sports man like quality of superman.i just prefer clark donning a pair of boxing gloves now and then.

    You see alot of people find goku and other characters as inspiration for their training. But, i have never seen people say the same for superman. And superman at his core is supposed to be a strong man.

    Allmight has same abilities as superman. Allmight's victories feels like his own. He doesn't get boost from the sun or anything. He has to dig deeper inside to give it his all and plus ultra. With superman whenever such event occurs superman simply recharges from the sun.

    That is why the golden age explanation of gravity and superman being like insects that can lift higher is very much appealing to me. There superman can get stronger and stronger with training and not because how much sun-protein shake he had.superman feels like he is taking substances for his strength, rather than train to get maximum output from his physiology and genetics .
    The only one who trains is Batman. Cap doesn’t need to train he’s got the Super Soldier Serum. Iron Man doesn’t train at all he just builds suits. I don’t really buy that people would care whether Supes gets his powers from the sun or gravity.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Marvel and certain anime have gotten away from the number side of it because it's a pretty massive case of writing yourself into a corner. The old "100 ton" thing especially because most colossal feats, even the ones we take for granted now, require strength well beyond lifting 100 tons in any sort of way. 200 tons is like... scooping up a building. If Superman is the mightiest hero on earth then one building pushing his limit doesn't seem great these days. The empire state building is 365000 tons. Sure, if you can't write a character who "only" lifts an ocean liner you probably have a dilemma of your own creativity, but this is Superman.
    The way I always looked at it was that it wasn't hard for Superman to lift a building, per se, but hard to do it in such a way that it doesn't collapse around him. That the "strain," if anything, would have more to do with the care in doing so safely and/or pushing his electromagnetic/psi field out (going by the Byrne power model, which I very much enjoy)
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  14. #14
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's normally how I look at it, too. The nice thing is although Byrne had even given himself the title of "that guy," nitpicking and explaining for peace of mind in fact, he was careful not to actually try defining those things. You basically just jad enough of an explanation for the scene to work. Even when he threw that lab into space, despite his aura, we saw him harden and fuse the ground beneath it so he could actually hold something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The only one who trains is Batman. Cap doesn’t need to train he’s got the Super Soldier Serum. Iron Man doesn’t train at all he just builds suits. I don’t really buy that people would care whether Supes gets his powers from the sun or gravity.
    Super steroid is apt, but how that works is that it lets him train much harder and longer while staying anabolic above human levels. I've been reading a scary amount of (pre crisis and earlier post) Batman recently, grew up with Cap, and I have to say Steve has more training scenes by far. Batman is the most popular hero and has more realistic depictions than the others despite that... until he has to do compete with them somehow. Or in how he seemed to break his bones or get beaten into a coma every other night, haha.

    Superman requires the least training of maybe anyone, but with his speed and stamina he's able to rack up more experience than pretty much anyone. I liked Torquasm not so much because it made him more powerful, but because it is neat to see him go deeper like you said.
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  15. #15
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    Now this is something I have never understood!! Why some want heroes powers to be toned down, but want their enemies to be all powerful!! I want the heroes to powerful, very powerful!! I have no issue with superman being able to move a moon or being able to hold his own against any of the most powerful villains in the Dc universe, to include Darkseid or doomday!! I'm not fan of the punching bag superhero that you see these days!! In today comics the heroes always get their butts kicked!! In today comics the heroes is always weaker than their enemies!! Don't like that at all!!! When will see the return of the powerful superhero that can go toe to toe with any of the supervillains!!
    Last edited by lotchj; 08-20-2019 at 07:06 PM.

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