Page 4 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 139
  1. #46
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    1,145

    Default

    No character has a set limit on their abilities, I don't see why Superman should. The last character who really had that problem that I recall was Wally West being stuck around the sound barrier, and even then, it was subconsciously self-imposed. If his powers are a problem for you, quite frankly, I don't think you'll be a long-time fan of Superman. Everything in his universe is simply on another level and if you nerf him then all that you do is make his stories into a poor man's Dragon Ball.

    Goku and friends follow the usual routine of "baddie shows up, supporting character who is stronger than Goku takes them on and gets wrecked, Goku trains and eventually overcomes." Superman's gimmick is more that he's at a specific level and has to use his skills to overcome. That's the paradigm. Sometimes he needs to dig deep and pull an extra gear to ratchet up to, but overall that's the usual approach. He hasn't been a planet mover since the Silver Age anyway. Recently he took multiple sun dips and was able to one-punch the Anti-Monitor's brother into a knockdown. That's some feat, but he's not pulling a galaxy on a chain like he used to. I like where we're out with his power set.

  2. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    I can see that logic when you haven't pushed levels up to 11. I can buy Batman becoming a better fighter, or Green Arrow becoming a better archer, but Flash is already so fast that no one but him would notice if he got faster. And Aquaman can't breathe water better. And Superman (like one punch man) simply has no oractical items left to lift

    I mean do we really believe that humans can run as fast as the Flash? I'm not talking in comics, but in real life. That the guy who can run a 3.3 minute mile can train himself to run a 3 minute mile and then a 2 minute, 1 minute (i.e 60 mph)?

    Some of Superman's feats at point strike me as being as ludicrous as a solar system size Giant Man or as twisted as a discussion on what the Flash sees in a mirror if he is moving faster than light? And i'd rather read about Superman as a top of the heap hero but without all that stuff outside of any realistic scale.
    That is the thing though. the same logic of would to batman. Can you see any human beating batman in hand to hand combat? He has already mastered allmost all styles. He is the world's greatest detective. He is even touted as the smartest.
    Nope!unlike one punch man, who beat the most powerful threat while being bored and ending it without throwing a serious punch. Superman's villains are as strong and as powerful as him or more so. So there is a difference. Clark can have exciting fights with foes and get injured or killed.there is a level of Stakes for clark. But, for saitama there isn't.
    Don't get me wrong. The one punch man fights are the best and is exciting. Not because we are afraid if saitama will make it. But, because we want to know whether his enemies can give saitama the fight he wants or better yet beat him.
    The problem is, your using rules of realism to read the material. When not everything has to play by those rule. There are other modes of reading and perceiving things. You say galaxy size giant man is ridiculous. Why? It isn't weird to have giant robots like unicron or primus. Galactus and other cosmic entities are big as well. Infinity is practically the universe .You just have to stop asking questions like "who pumps the tires of the batmobile" like grant morrison said to enjoy these things.

    Full quote “People say kids can’t understand the difference between fact and fiction, but that’s bullshit, Kids understand that real crabs don’t sing like the ones in The Little Mermaid. But you give an adult fiction, and the adult starts asking really fucking dumb questions like ‘How does Superman fly? How do those eyebeams work? Who pumps the Batmobile’s tires?’ It’s a fucking made-up story, you idiot! Nobody pumps the tires!”

    You know, i am a hindu. We have an avatar of vishnu named vamana. A dwarf of that grew the size of the universe from dwarf size inorder to measure it with his feet. You don't see me complaining,do you? It is what it is. Just go with it.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    That is the thing though. the same logic of would to batman. Can you see any human beating batman in hand to hand combat? He has already mastered allmost all styles. He is the world's greatest detective. He is even touted as the smartest.
    Nope!unlike one punch man, who beat the most powerful threat while being bored and ending it without throwing a serious punch. Superman's villains are as strong and as powerful as him or more so. So there is a difference. Clark can have exciting fights with foes and get injured or killed.there is a level of Stakes for clark. But, for saitama there isn't.
    .
    I dont understand it:
    There are MANY Humans who have beaten him or can beat him:
    -BRONZE TIGER
    -KARATE KID
    -CASSANDRA CAIN
    -LADY SHIVA
    -DEATHSTROKE
    -RICHARD DRAGON
    -SENSEI
    -RA'S

  4. #49
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    iowa
    Posts
    1,632

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    There is fantastical as in "Our ships travel faster than light" or "we have androids who can even simulate emotions". Then there are stories that are just based on how much higher the numbers are.

    Like I said I think Superman too often gets into "I just came up with an even higher stat measurement now let's add 1 on to it." To badly use a quote "Superman lifting Mt Everest is a feat, Superman lifting the weight of the universe is a statistic". At a certain point the guy who lifts mountains trading punches with the guy who shrugs off atom bombs is the same story as the guy who tosses cars battling the guy who laughs at bazooka shells. Same plot points just more bombastic descriptions.
    It strikes me as a complaint that's in search of a problem. When was the last time Superman "lifted the universe"?

    Again, the idea is context. It's not just the hero's ship that travels faster than light, etc. Superman lives in a fantastical world, and does the most fantastical things when he has to use his brain as well as his powers to overcome whatever threat there is. That's not raw power.

    How often do you see "stats", anyway? That's a DBZ thing. You *maybe* see Superman gauge his powers once every 5-10 years or so. Other than that, it's subjective, or it's for comparison when all us comic nerds talk about power levels to compare characters. I think you're conflating people (like us) talking about Superman's power level numbers with the comics doing that. They generally don't.

    Let's look at every story from Rebirth until now.... how many specific examples of "let's add a 1 to a token stat measurement" are there? I personally doubt there are any, but if there are any then there definitely aren't many.
    Hear my new CD "Love The World Away", available on iTunes, Google Music, Spotify, Shazam, and Amazon: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01N5XYV..._waESybX1C0RXK via @amazon
    www.jamiekelleymusic.com
    TV interview here: https://snjtoday.com/snj-today-hotline-jamie-kelley/

  5. #50
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Only because she didnt want to kill him.
    In Injustice Comic she defeated him for example.
    And the tiara cut Supermans throat which could have been lethal..

    Her sword even cut Doomsday and also injured Superman https://www.quora.com/Can-Wonder-Wom...upermans-hands (here you can also see the Tiara cutting Supermans Throat)

    So if she wouldnt want to kill him she could kill him with her sword.
    Injustice is an elseworld and even there it was implied she beat him because his heart wasn't in the fight.

    Superman healed from the tiara cut in a manner of minutes. The only way it would have been lethal was if he wasn't Superman.

    The sword cutting Doomsday did nothing to him.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-25-2019 at 02:47 AM.

  6. #51
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,865

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Spiderman isn't stuck at the same powerlevel. He has even became Captain Universe. Symbiote suit, spidey armour, iron spider suit..etc change his power levels as well. Not mention that time he grew two more pairs of arms or the time he mutated fully into a giant spider. He also upgrades his webbing and adapts to his opponent to make it feel like he is progressing. Just like other comics characters like batman.
    But, you are right. Getting stuck isn't all that bad. If there are other avenues to explore.
    But, getting stuck like ash ketchum would be not cool while others in your own universe improve would not be cool.
    All those power ups you listed have been temporary. You do have a point about making new webbing but that isn't quite the same as increasing power levels.

  7. #52

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I dont understand it:
    There are MANY Humans who have beaten him or can beat him:
    -BRONZE TIGER
    -KARATE KID
    -CASSANDRA CAIN
    -LADY SHIVA
    -DEATHSTROKE
    -RICHARD DRAGON
    -SENSEI
    -RA'S
    I was talking realistically. Since, he was talking about realism.

  8. #53
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I was talking realistically. Since, he was talking about realism.
    Street-Fight or Fight under Rules like MMA?

    Realistically speaking there are many humans who can defeat him.
    It absolutely DOESNT matter how many martial arts you have mastered...

    What matters is that you really fight and train with full contact with other people.

    And realistically speaking there are only a few martial arts who I would say that really matters: Boxing,Kickboxing,Muay Thai,Kyokushin Karate,Wrestling,Submission Wrestling, Sambo, Judo (old style Judo), BJJ, Luta Livre....some FMA

    If you are talking about Street-Fighting without rules I would also add Krav Maga,Systema etc.

  9. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    All those power ups you listed have been temporary. You do have a point about making new webbing but that isn't quite the same as increasing power levels.
    Well, its comics status quo shifts back. But, the thing spiderman can get to higher powerlevels by various means. Things don't remain static for him. That was my point. We get a feeling of progression from all these changes and he gets to hang with the avengers to fight thanos.

    If superman is made tp be stuck at a certain speed, flash keeps getting faster, leaves him in the dust And clark isn't a bothered by it. If gives upon getting stronger or faster.Then he isn't an athlete or a strongman. What is the point of racing? Competition should be kept alive. Clark should be allowed break his former limits. Otherwise, he isn't superman. Anyone who gives up on improving and settles for anything else than being the best he can be, is not superman.The athlete/strongman aspect should be more in focus in my opinion. That is also why i hate the solar protein drink concept. It is cheap, overused and doesn't fit.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-25-2019 at 03:21 AM.

  10. #55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    Street-Fight or Fight under Rules like MMA?

    Realistically speaking there are many humans who can defeat him.
    It absolutely DOESNT matter how many martial arts you have mastered...

    What matters is that you really fight and train with full contact with other people.

    And realistically speaking there are only a few martial arts who I would say that really matters: Boxing,Kickboxing,Muay Thai,Kyokushin Karate,Wrestling,Submission Wrestling, Sambo, Judo (old style Judo), BJJ, Luta Livre....some FMA

    If you are talking about Street-Fighting without rules I would also add Krav Maga,Systema etc.
    If a guy like batman who has the experience, physical capabilities and training he has, existed in the real world. He would bull doze through his competition. That is what i was saying.batman is pretty much beyond the domain of realism and ventures into fantasy.
    I did not say batman can't be realistically portrayed. Then the portrayal will be something like Christopher nolan's the dark knight trilogy.

  11. #56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    It strikes me as a complaint that's in search of a problem. When was the last time Superman "lifted the universe"?

    Again, the idea is context. It's not just the hero's ship that travels faster than light, etc. Superman lives in a fantastical world, and does the most fantastical things when he has to use his brain as well as his powers to overcome whatever threat there is. That's not raw power.

    How often do you see "stats", anyway? That's a DBZ thing. You *maybe* see Superman gauge his powers once every 5-10 years or so. Other than that, it's subjective, or it's for comparison when all us comic nerds talk about power levels to compare characters. I think you're conflating people (like us) talking about Superman's power level numbers with the comics doing that. They generally don't.

    Let's look at every story from Rebirth until now.... how many specific examples of "let's add a 1 to a token stat measurement" are there? I personally doubt there are any, but if there are any then there definitely aren't many.
    It did happen in all star superman. Quintillion tons thing. He might be talking about that. I think there is an undercurrent of this in silverage stories. But, i don't view it as bad. It is just clark the strong man showing how much he can lift.afterall, What's the point of having huge biceps if you don't get to flex it.

  12. #57
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    If a guy like batman who has the experience, physical capabilities and training he has, existed in the real world. He would bull doze through his competition. That is what i was saying.batman is pretty much beyond the domain of realism and ventures into fantasy.
    I did not say batman can't be realistically portrayed. Then the portrayal will be something like Christopher nolan's the dark knight trilogy.
    What are you talking about?

    are you talking about

    a) COMIC Batman with COMIC Abilities against REAL Humans?
    b) Batman who trained like the Comic Batman, but did in REALITY?

    Sorry, but there are many professional Fighters who could beat Batman (UNLESS you let him also use some Comic techniques)

  13. #58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    What are you talking about?

    are you talking about

    a) COMIC Batman with COMIC Abilities against REAL Humans?
    b) Batman who trained like the Comic Batman, but did in REALITY?

    Sorry, but there are many professional Fighters who could beat Batman (UNLESS you let him also use some Comic techniques)
    Comic batman in real world.

  14. #59
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    It did happen in all star superman. Quintillion tons thing. He might be talking about that. I think there is an undercurrent of this in silverage stories. But, i don't view it as bad. It is just clark the strong man showing how much he can lift.afterall, What's the point of having huge biceps if you don't get to flex it.
    To be fair this happened there because to show that he got stronger, but was also sick and left earth at the end.
    It WASNT to simply show his strenght etc. it was a symptom of his sickness.

  15. #60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    To be fair this happened there because to show that he got stronger, but was also sick and left earth at the end.
    It WASNT to simply show his strenght etc. it was a symptom of his sickness.
    Like i said, i don't view it as bad. In fact, i love scenes like that. I feel like people have forgotten Superman is supposed to be a strongman at his core. Hell yeah! He would measure his strength.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •