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  1. #511
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    I’m not happy about the split, but I think we need to realistically view who the responsible party is. No credible reports are saying Sony wanted anything but a renewed deal. Meanwhile, Disney, by every report, wanted at least a little bit of the film rights to Spider-Man back and a revenue split to boot. Thankfully, I think that a deal with be worked out and it will be fine.

    And while we can certainly point the finger completely his way for X-Men Origins: Wolverine, that requires giving him all the credit for X-Men: First Class, Days of Future Past, and The Wolverine (which were all varying degrees of good to great). He has a mixed track record at worst. So, we’ll have to see where we end up at the end of this process. And I will hold out hope that future Spider-Man flicks are more like the latter three than the former one.
    Rothman left Fox in September 2012. (He's also responsible for that cinematic masterpiece, X-Men: The Last Stand.)

    Maybe don't be so confident that this guy can produce a good Spider-Man movie given his track record.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    Right. They had an opportunity cost. But it was one they were aware of when they signed this deal. Now, maybe Sony’s statement was more accurate than a lot of people who have ridiculed it have given it credit for. The Fox purchase changed the calculus and Disney no longer wanted to incur the opportunity cost, at least without more of a take in the films their company’s President was working on, to just have one character in the MCU. Having the X-Men and Fantastic Four introduces quicker was more important than access to one character in an Avengers film. But that would require admitting Sony was right, more or less, about Feige being “too busy”.
    Yes, I'm sure Sony cares very deeply for Feige...

  2. #512
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    undoubtedly. sony was always going to want 100% control back in the future, but nothing will hasten that move faster than me demanding 25-45% more of your cut.

    as noted, box office returns ain't what they used to be; merchandising and home entertainment is where the real cashola happens. so cutting into that box office...that hurts.

    it's funny how fans are surprised by businesses acting like businesses; neither company is doing this for the kids
    Oh, undoubtedly. Both of these companies aren't the underdog or the little guy or what have you. They're large soulless corporations trying to earn as much money as they can in a cut-throat industry.

  3. #513
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Oh, undoubtedly. Both of these companies aren't the underdog or the little guy or what have you. They're large soulless corporations trying to earn as much money as they can in a cut-throat industry.
    capitalism stole my virginity
    Last edited by boots; 09-15-2019 at 09:25 PM.
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  4. #514
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    -the international noise conspiracy
    troo fan or death

  5. #515
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    30% is better than 50% but much much worse than 5%. it’s still putting sony in a terrible position
    Terrible position off the back of their first billion dollar earning film.
    I'm sure if Marvel didn't do work then they wouldn't have negotiated for a deal which gave them a larger cut, but come on. After Far From Home's outrageous box office success, they earned the right to ask for more than peanuts.
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  6. #516

  7. #517
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    Terrible position off the back of their first billion dollar earning film.
    I'm sure if Marvel didn't do work then they wouldn't have negotiated for a deal which gave them a larger cut, but come on. After Far From Home's outrageous box office success, they earned the right to ask for more than peanuts.
    well, i wouldn't call the merchandising rights ain't exactly peanuts. and again, what the studios take home from box office revenue internationally ain't as hot as the headlines make it sound.

    basically a terrible position is still a terrible position. sony is not in the same place of strength as marvel. both are in healthier spots than they were when the original deal was made, but it isn't a level playing field.

    i hear what you're saying; marvel may not be a bully and may "deserve" more, but "more" will bog sony's forward momentum and may spell its death.

    marvel are better off without the deal in its current form, and sony are better off without the deal marvel offered. that's corporate life.
    Last edited by boots; 09-16-2019 at 04:22 PM.
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  8. #518
    Incredible Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Rothman left Fox in September 2012. (He's also responsible for that cinematic masterpiece, X-Men: The Last Stand.)

    Maybe don't be so confident that this guy can produce a good Spider-Man movie given his track record.
    Actually he left January 1, 2013, well into post-production of The Wolverine and after X-Men: Days of Future Past had been greenlit. He also was chairman for the duration of the prior X-Men films (with the exception of the first really). So, yeah, mixed bag seems appropriate. And I think we致e already seen that with Spider-Man films created in his tenure without Feige痴 creative direction. Into the Spider-Verse is excellent and, frankly, better than any MCU Spider-Man film. Venom? Only really better than Iron Man 2 and Thor: The Dark World. Of course, I would致e preferred an agreement. But Disney nuked the deal, not Sony.

    Yes, I'm sure Sony cares very deeply for Feige...
    Dude gave them the biggest success they have had with the property. They undoubtedly wanted to stay in business. But Disney wanted co-financing rights, which gives them some of the film rights to, at the very least this version, of the character. That makes it harder for Sony to go forward should Disney make an even more unreasonable offer without having to undergo yet another hard reboot. Plus, again, Disney essentially wanted to make Sony痴 revenue share so small that they would致e made more off fiscally responsible, lower performing movies (in the realm of the TASM films). Sony literally could not have made that deal. If they did, heads would roll.
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  9. #519
    Incredible Member TheDarman's Avatar
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    Based on what sources are we guessing that the rights revert? Why would Spider-Man be different than literally any other IP? (You know, like how all Fox’s material, including licensed material, transferred to Disney without exception?)
    With Great Power, Comes Great Responsibility

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  10. #520
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    well, i wouldn't call the merchandising rights ain't exactly peanuts. and again, what the studios take home from box office revenue internationally ain't as hot as the headlines make it sound.

    basically a terrible position is still a terrible position. sony is not in the same place of strength as marvel. both are in healthier spots than they were when the original deal was made, but it isn't a level playing field.
    I mean producing for free and only getting 5% of ticket sales, they need to get paid somehow. I dunno how much merch is made off of the films but I can't imagine either party walked away from this film stiffed or anything. But if you go above and beyond, you ask for a raise. I can't balk at Marvel for renegotiating considering the job they did.
    But overall it's such a mutually beneficial partnership that I think both parties are at fault for not making this work. Marvel Studios will continue on because they can make stars out of walking trees, but there's going to be hole in the MCU for a while yet. And Sony can make solo Spidey films, but at what cost? Producer e-mails wanted Peter Parker to be into Tough Mudder and trap music and shit. I think the fans are the ones that lose the most here.
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  11. #521
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    Actually he left January 1, 2013, well into post-production of The Wolverine and after X-Men: Days of Future Past had been greenlit. He also was chairman for the duration of the prior X-Men films (with the exception of the first really). So, yeah, mixed bag seems appropriate. And I think we’ve already seen that with Spider-Man films created in his tenure without Feige’s creative direction. Into the Spider-Verse is excellent and, frankly, better than any MCU Spider-Man film. Venom? Only really better than Iron Man 2 and Thor: The Dark World. Of course, I would’ve preferred an agreement. But Disney nuked the deal, not Sony.
    Sony Execs basically ignored ITSV and let the people there do their thing. If ITSV were live-action, it would have been a lot more scrutinized. Let's not pretend otherwise.

    Rothman is not someone who one should have blind faith in when it comes to super hero movies. How anyone can after how fundamentally he screwed up Deadpool is something I honestly don't understand.

    Dude gave them the biggest success they have had with the property. They undoubtedly wanted to stay in business. But Disney wanted co-financing rights, which gives them some of the film rights to, at the very least this version, of the character. That makes it harder for Sony to go forward should Disney make an even more unreasonable offer without having to undergo yet another hard reboot. Plus, again, Disney essentially wanted to make Sony’s revenue share so small that they would’ve made more off fiscally responsible, lower performing movies (in the realm of the TASM films). Sony literally could not have made that deal. If they did, heads would roll.
    You do know Disney could make more money without the deal making something they own 100%, right? They could make more money doing a Captain Ultra movie than essentially making a Spider-Man movie for Sony for relative peanuts.

    You're acting like Sony is a small little Mom & Pop studio instead of a massive corporation. Neither they nor Disney are small companies.

  12. #522
    Mighty Member Spider-Chan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDarman View Post
    Based on what sources are we guessing that the rights revert? Why would Spider-Man be different than literally any other IP? (You know, like how all Fox’s material, including licensed material, transferred to Disney without exception?)
    The sources are within the article. It first sources Yahoo finance about Apple looking to buy a studio and Sony being a option, and later to a Forbes article explaining that if that happens the rights of Spider-Man are non-transferable, meaning they would revert to Disney if Sony sales.

  13. #523
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    I mean producing for free and only getting 5% of ticket sales, they need to get paid somehow. I dunno how much merch is made off of the films but I can't imagine either party walked away from this film stiffed or anything. But if you go above and beyond, you ask for a raise. I can't balk at Marvel for renegotiating considering the job they did.
    But overall it's such a mutually beneficial partnership that I think both parties are at fault for not making this work. Marvel Studios will continue on because they can make stars out of walking trees, but there's going to be hole in the MCU for a while yet. And Sony can make solo Spidey films, but at what cost? Producer e-mails wanted Peter Parker to be into Tough Mudder and trap music and shit. I think the fans are the ones that lose the most here.
    What the fudge is Tough Mudder and trap music?

  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    What the fudge is Tough Mudder and trap music?
    Tough Mudder are 5K - 10K runs through obstacle courses.

    Trap Music is a musical genre of hip hop.

    Basically imagine the executives at Sony like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AySXu8x-RnA

  15. #525
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Basically imagine the executives at Sony like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AySXu8x-RnA
    10/10 on that reference, sir.
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