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  1. #106
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I think you may be taking this a bit too seriously, man.
    No, screw that. This isn't about Disney or Sony. This is a larger problem with this world and creativity. The death of creativity as we think we know it.
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  2. #107
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    I hate this with every fiber of my being, and will not watch Marvel films, Sony films, Disney films, or whatever ever again.
    To be honest, that might be the smart and rational thing to do. I am being totally serious here.

    I mean at the end of the day, at best just four or five of these movies qualify as good cinema, the kind you can put alongside great action, comedies, romances and other genre movies, leave alone the Wes Anderson and Tarantino or Soderbergh stuff.

    It's not actually a good thing for fans to know so much about the behind-the-scenes stuff. In the old days, companies would never advertise or discuss this, and they would also do their best to hide this behind serial storytelling and so on. Like House of M and the X-Men being shuffled to the background would have been a great story and make logical sense and felt thematically right but now it's done so badly that people have to know all this stuff.

    Thanks to the internet and social media, we not only see how the sausage is made, we get to see them spit in the pot as well, and consume the products knowing what's in it.

  3. #108
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    To be honest, that might be the smart and rational thing to do. I am being totally serious here.

    I mean at the end of the day, at best just four or five of these movies qualify as good cinema, the kind you can put alongside great action, comedies, romances and other genre movies, leave alone the Wes Anderson and Tarantino or Soderbergh stuff.

    It's not actually a good thing for fans to know so much about the behind-the-scenes stuff. In the old days, companies would never advertise or discuss this, and they would also do their best to hide this behind serial storytelling and so on. Like House of M and the X-Men being shuffled to the background would have been a great story and make logical sense and felt thematically right but now it's done so badly that people have to know all this stuff.

    Thanks to the internet and social media, we not only see how the sausage is made, we get to see them spit in the pot as well, and consume the products knowing what's in it.
    It's the worst. I hate knowing what's behind the curtain. I wish none of us knew. Maybe then we could be blissfully ignorant, unknowing.
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  4. #109
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    I’m afraid this could mean bad things for the comic book side of things for Spider-Man. Especially if it’s an ugly split.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 08-20-2019 at 05:53 PM.

  5. #110
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I’m afraid this could mean bad things for the comic book side of thing for Spider-Man. Especially if it’s an ugly split.
    X-Men survived. I am sure Spiderman will.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    X-Men survived. I am sure Spiderman will.
    It got pretty ugly though. He’ll survive, but I can see a cut down on creator quality and new characters. Like with X-Men.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    No, screw that. This isn't about Disney or Sony. This is a larger problem with this world and creativity. The death of creativity as we think we know it.
    But I don't understand how Disney making superhero movies is the death of creativity. Yes, you have Disney becoming a legitimate monopoly, but you have more companies than ever creating films and getting them out to the public.
    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    To be honest, that might be the smart and rational thing to do. I am being totally serious here.

    I mean at the end of the day, at best just four or five of these movies qualify as good cinema, the kind you can put alongside great action, comedies, romances and other genre movies, leave alone the Wes Anderson and Tarantino or Soderbergh stuff.

    It's not actually a good thing for fans to know so much about the behind-the-scenes stuff. In the old days, companies would never advertise or discuss this, and they would also do their best to hide this behind serial storytelling and so on. Like House of M and the X-Men being shuffled to the background would have been a great story and make logical sense and felt thematically right but now it's done so badly that people have to know all this stuff.

    Thanks to the internet and social media, we not only see how the sausage is made, we get to see them spit in the pot as well, and consume the products knowing what's in it.
    But I like knowing how things are made. I am in the minority, maybe, and I wish that it was easier for people to tune it all out if they wanted, but at the end of the day, I like knowing how things are made. I mean, so much blood, sweat, and tears go into these movie. And yes, corporate greed is a major part of them, but so is a real love and dedication.

  8. #113
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    This has been said before but I'll say it again.

    There absolutely will be another Tom Holland Spider-Man. It will be a sequel to Far From Home.

    However it won't refer to Iron Man, the Avengers or stuff like "The blip". No Happy Hogan. No cutesie AI left behind by "Mister Stark". No William Ginter Riva (i.e. box-with-scraps guy who now works as Mysterio's bestie).

    Sony owns the rights to all Spider-Man characters and more important it owns rights to their versions of the characters. Jameson is a Spider-Man character. Tom Holland and all the cast in the solo-movies have contract with Sony and not Disney-Marvel.

    More or less you will get a Spider-Man movie that follows on that stinger. And to be honest, it wouldn't be hard to do without the MCU.
    Then at that point, what痴 even the point? These are all things that have come to be a part of both the character and the continuity. At that point, it痴 like watching a movie where they then have to digitally edit out a third of the actors because of contract issues after it痴 been filmed. The whole thing just becomes sloppy and a mess.

  9. #114
    Incredible Member AngelJD's Avatar
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    There are always two sides.

    The 'business side" corporate/producers/lawyers that handles contracts, deals issues, budget, stockholders, and more which is the central drama stage in this story.

    Then the 'creative side' with the creators, writers, the directors, the actors, the behind the scenes/camera people/team, costuming, set building, editing, music, and so forth all that handles the 'arts'.

    We enjoy the 'arts'. We don't enjoy the 'business'. But the 'arts' are funded and only able to start after the 'business' side handles issues and even during the creation of the 'arts' things can change at a whim of 'business'.
    We love experiencing the possible stories, the rides, the 'arts' but it all takes money to make something of the level of quality that we hope to see and the 'arts' has to bring in money to the 'business' side that pays the bills.

    'Business' is one giant pain of red tape, analyzing, and budgets but the 'arts' we enjoy many times requires those funds and are limited sadly in terms set about by red tape and deals. Many times a 'tell all' book might come out that shows the backstage business drama akin to a Game of Thrones tale that we normal don't pay attention to as we focus only on the 'arts'. If the 'business' side isn't making money (or the estimated money as a small profit isn't good enough for stockholders) the top heads in charge can put themselves at risk/be in danger and their heads will roll at a stockholder meeting so they will care about that primary first.

    Both sides of 'business' are now gambling and negotiating hoping to achieve the best results for their long term ends. I don't know how long both the 'business' and 'arts' side of Marvel/Disney wanted/hoped Spider-man/Tom to be in their MCU plus not knowing what hopes Tom and the rest of the MCU Spider-man cast had wished for but not holding the movie rights at some point either Sony or Tom was going to leave/take a bow.
    Don't know if desires for other Spider linked characters in the movies might of went into the 'creative'/'arts' side of Marvel/Disney cast that now are in jeopardy. Based on the cliffhanger it feels that the writers felt they would at least have one more movie to showcase their tale and those creators are probably even more upset then we are about this (yet many also experienced with such drama). They are the creators and artists with personal hopes that might be planned and now dashed plus they would have to not plan for but scout/market themselves soon for the next paychecks (many in the 'arts' are freelancers that goes to whoever they can find work with) with this now possibly ending.

    I wonder what the terms are that Disney/Marvel much like Hulk if they would be able to place Tom/Spider-man characters in 'Avengers' films or that would be a no go due to the red tape made? If not the streaming/tv side might be the only road for the creators to finish what they had hoped to make.

  10. #115
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    IF Spider-Man were to be Perlmutter'd it would mean stuff like cancelling many Spidey satelitte titles, AU, and making Peter the only Spider-Man with powers, while doing a Spider-Verse event whereby Miles and Gwen go back to their universes, being shuffled out of view, while Kaine and Silk and others get depowered or killed, Superior Octopus gets murdered by Classic Octopus (established as two different guys) and there's a mandate against creating new characters in Spider-man. That's what happened in House of M. Quesada said in the wake of that he said, "we’re putting a moratorium on new mutants being created."

    That's what it would look like. We might also not see Spider-Man being involved in event stories or in the Avengers and Fantastic Four side of things.

    That wouldn't affect Spider-Man as much as it did the X-Men.

  11. #116
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    It got pretty ugly though. He’ll survive, but I can see a cut down on creator quality and new characters. Like with X-Men.
    Spiderman is one of the lucky ones. Like X-Men his base are loyal to the comics, he was already one of the few well known marvel names without movies.Spiderman would still sell comics good enough never to get a pure line cancellation like F4 did.

    Also think of the wonders now with more Spiderman games and Spiderman animated movies that Sony would push for to make up for the loss of Spiderman in the MCU. I don't think we need more Spiderman live action movies for now.

  12. #117
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelJD View Post
    There are always two sides.

    The 'business side" corporate/producers/lawyers that handles contracts, deals issues, budget, stockholders, and more which is the central drama stage in this story.

    Then the 'creative side' with the creators, writers, the directors, the actors, the behind the scenes/camera people/team, costuming, set building, editing, music, and so forth all that handles the 'arts'.

    We enjoy the 'arts'. We don't enjoy the 'business'. But the 'arts' are funded and only able to start after the 'business' side handles issues and even during the creation of the 'arts' things can change at a whim of 'business'.
    We love experiencing the possible stories, the rides, the 'arts' but it all takes money to make something of the level of quality that we hope to see and the 'arts' has to bring in money to the 'business' side that pays the bills.

    'Business' is one giant pain of red tape, analyzing, and budgets but the 'arts' we enjoy many times requires those funds and are limited sadly in terms set about by red tape and deals. Many times a 'tell all' book might come out that shows the backstage business drama akin to a Game of Thrones tale that we normal don't pay attention to as we focus only on the 'arts'. If the 'business' side isn't making money (or the estimated money as a small profit isn't good enough for stockholders) the top heads in charge can put themselves at risk/be in danger and their heads will roll at a stockholder meeting so they will care about that primary first.

    Both sides of 'business' are now gambling and negotiating hoping to achieve the best results for their long term ends. I don't know how long both the 'business' and 'arts' side of Marvel/Disney wanted/hoped Spider-man/Tom to be in their MCU plus not knowing what hopes Tom and the rest of the MCU Spider-man cast had wished for but not holding the movie rights at some point either Sony or Tom was going to leave/take a bow.
    Don't know if desires for other Spider linked characters in the movies might of went into the 'creative'/'arts' side of Marvel/Disney cast that now are in jeopardy. Based on the cliffhanger it feels that the writers felt they would at least have one more movie to showcase their tale and those creators are probably even more upset then we are about this (yet many also experienced with such drama). They are the creators and artists with personal hopes that might be planned and now dashed plus they would have to not plan for but scout/market themselves soon for the next paychecks (many in the 'arts' are freelancers that goes to whoever they can find work with) with this now possibly ending.

    I wonder what the terms are that Disney/Marvel much like Hulk if they would be able to place Tom/Spider-man characters in 'Avengers' films or that would be a no go due to the red tape made? If not the streaming/tv side might be the only road for the creators to finish what they had hoped to make.
    My take is that all this red tape is unnecessary. Humanity created this system of red tape for no reason than to make things far more complicated. Creativity and art would develop without that red tape and would flourish without it. But this is the life that we have created in this world.
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  13. #118
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    At that point, it’s like watching a movie where they then have to digitally edit out a third of the actors because of contract issues after it’s been filmed. The whole thing just becomes sloppy and a mess.
    Well they might take a page out of Quesada's page-book, "everything in the Tom Holland MCU movies happened in this continuity, there just was no Iron Man, no Thanos, no Blip".

    In any case the third movie is set up to be the Jonah Story starring Spider-Man, you don't really need the MCU for that.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    IF Spider-Man were to be Perlmutter'd it would mean stuff like cancelling many Spidey satelitte titles, AU, and making Peter the only Spider-Man with powers, while doing a Spider-Verse event whereby Miles and Gwen go back to their universes, being shuffled out of view, while Kaine and Silk and others get depowered or killed, Superior Octopus gets murdered by Classic Octopus (established as two different guys) and there's a mandate against creating new characters in Spider-man. That's what happened in House of M. Quesada said in the wake of that he said, "we’re putting a moratorium on new mutants being created."

    That's what it would look like. We might also not see Spider-Man being involved in event stories or in the Avengers and Fantastic Four side of things.

    That wouldn't affect Spider-Man as much as it did the X-Men.
    I'm just not sure. I think Spiderman is so beloved that it as a franchise may be a lot more safe than even the Fantastic Four and the X-Men. But again, who knows? Disney still holds a lot of the merchandising rights, plus some of the TV rights, so there you go there. And Disney may think that it's only a matter of time before Sony comes back to them.

  15. #120
    Astonishing Member Kusanagi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    I’m afraid this could mean bad things for the comic book side of things for Spider-Man. Especially if it’s an ugly split.
    Don't think it's the same thing, Fox owned Movie Rights, TV Rights, Cartoon Rights, game rights (not sure on this one)

    The only thing Sony owns is the movie rights. Marvel would be insane to mess with Spidey in the comics when they can profit on him every other way aside from movies.
    Current Pull: Amazing Spider-Man and Domino

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