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  1. #136
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I wish people see things from Sony's point of view. To quote the Deadline article: "There is a lot of webbing here, but it all comes down to money, and it’s easy to understand why both sides refused to give ground."

    Sony can't afford to go 50/50 with Disney. That would amount to an end to Sony Pictures.

    It's not idiocy, it's survival desperation.
    While a 50/50 split is a bit much, that’s where negotiations should have started, not just burning the whole thing to the ground. They just made a billion dollar movie, something that they had never managed before and, even with the success of Venom, hadn’t matched with any of their Spider-Man based movies. There is no doubt that at least some portion of that came from the fact that this was part of the MCU. Without that, who knows what level of success they’ll see. It screams cutting off your nose to spite your face.

  2. #137
    VEGETATIVE INJUSTICE! Kurisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkcrusade25 View Post
    No one cares to understand the business reasons. Not talking about this forum but more like social media in general. Everyone is blaming Sony.
    Gotta shill for that billion dollar conglomerate~

  3. #138
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    While a 50/50 split is a bit much,
    "Bit much". It's ridiculous s'what.

    that痴 where negotiations should have started,
    People who started 50/50 would usually compromise at 40/60 and not lower. That's still too much.

    not just burning the whole thing to the ground.
    The actual reaction Sony should have had is this...
    1516594d28c312f8e8a266156db330b4.jpg

    They just made a billion dollar movie, something that they had never managed before
    That's a fairly ridiculous standard. It's not like Disney is James Cameron or George Lucas who made billion dollar movies out of original stories and properties unlike Disney who never made billion dollar movies until they bought IP like Star Wars and Marvel Studios.

    And the only reason Marvel Studios exist is because of Sony's Spider-Man movies. The success of those Raimi movies brought new attention to Marvel properties, leading to new investors and capitals opening to them, and that's what led to the MCU being funded in the first place. And in any case, the lion's share of any Hollywood movie's profits come from US grosses, and the Disney Spider-Man grosses aren't all that high in USA. The highest gross for any Spider-Man movie is the first Raimi movie at $400mn and adjusted for inflation that's $626mn. That's way ahead of Far From Home.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    And the only reason Marvel Studios exist is because of Sony's Spider-Man movies. The success of those Raimi movies brought new attention to Marvel properties, leading to new investors and capitals opening to them, and that's what led to the MCU being funded in the first place. And in any case, the lion's share of any Hollywood movie's profits come from US grosses, and the Disney Spider-Man grosses aren't all that high in USA. The highest gross for any Spider-Man movie is the first Raimi movie at $400mn and adjusted for inflation that's $626mn. That's way ahead of Far From Home.
    The first Raimi movie hit so big because it was the first movie. Sure it helped that it was also good but the real factor on its side was that was the first big screen Spidey appearance. That's an advantage that no other film in the series can have. The fact that the new films perform as well as they do is hugely impressive. No one would reasonably expect them to surpass the original on the domestic front.

    And the Raimi Spidey films aren't the only reason Marvel Studios came to exist. The success of the early X-films helped sell the potential of Marvel's characters as well.

  5. #140
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    The first Raimi movie hit so big because it was the first movie. Sure it helped that it was also good but the real factor on its side was that was the first big screen Spidey appearance. That's an advantage that no other film in the series can have. The fact that the new films perform as well as they do is hugely impressive. No one would reasonably expect them to surpass the original on the domestic front.

    And the Raimi Spidey films aren't the only reason Marvel Studios came to exist. The success of the early X-films helped sell the potential of Marvel's characters as well.
    Don't forget Blade.

  6. #141

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    I don't see how anyone can see this as anything other than Marvel/Disney overstepping their bounds.

    A 50/50 split? Why would Sony or anyone ever agree to that? The original agreement between the two was just fine and mutually beneficial. This was a very greedy move by Marvel's part.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Don't forget Blade.
    I know we all cite Blade as a successful comicbook movie, but given how different movie Blade is to comic Blade and everything, can it really be called a comicbook movie?

  8. #143
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prof. Warren View Post
    The first Raimi movie hit so big because it was the first movie. Sure it helped that it was also good but the real factor on its side was that was the first big screen Spidey appearance. That's an advantage that no other film in the series can have.
    I am sure the first Fantastic Four movie, the first Captain America movie, heck the first Punisher movie with Dolph Lundgren, and why not the first Batman serial in the '40s would be quite keen on hearing of these advantages.

    And the Raimi Spidey films aren't the only reason Marvel Studios came to exist. The success of the early X-films helped sell the potential of Marvel's characters as well.
    Spider-Man 1 made ($821.7mn) and Spider-Man 2 made ($783.8mn). X-Men 1 made $157mn and X-Men 2 made $214,949,694. Blade 2 made ($82mn) and Blade 1 made ($70mn). This is unadjusted prices by the way. But even adjusted it wouldn't be much of a difference.

    The Raimi movies was what convinced people that there was Star Wars money to be made in Marvel. That's what led to the first wave of Marvel adaptations - stuff like the Fox Daredevil movie with Ben Affleck, the Punisher movie with Thomas Jane, the Tim Story Fantastic Four movies, and even by the way, Chris Nolan's Batman movies.

    The Fox X-Men movies have always been decently profitable and steady but never 4-quadrant. The highest grossing movies for Fox are Deadpool 1 and Deadpool 2 while in terms of profit margin, Logan (owing to low-budget) is the most profitable movie starring a legit X-Man.
    Last edited by Revolutionary_Jack; 08-20-2019 at 07:41 PM.

  9. #144
    Fantastic Member Sparko's Avatar
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    If Spidey is to indeed be gone from the MCU, with JJJ being introduced in Far From Home, with the status quo being changed because of Mysterio outing him, would that mean that will never have happened? No JJJ in the Sony verse? I imagine it’d be like a soft reboot of sorts on whatever comes next with Tom Holland...

  10. #145
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    Don't forget Blade.
    do the majority of peeps associate blade with marvel?

    speaking on the other points; i understand the gut reaction to corporate shenanigans in the arts; but spider-man has always been a corporate asset. he was never the “fan’s” despite stan’s rhetoric.

    if someone wanted to boycott hollywood altogether; i respect that. but i’d be a hypocrite to try to claim the same fortitude.

    i’m actually glad we can see the man behind the curtain these days
    troo fan or death

  11. #146
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I don't see how anyone can see this as anything other than Marvel/Disney overstepping their bounds.

    A 50/50 split? Why would Sony or anyone ever agree to that? The original agreement between the two was just fine and mutually beneficial. This was a very greedy move by Marvel's part.
    I'm seeing the same attitudes in regards to this as I did when news of Disney buying FOX first started making the rounds.

    People see Sony as the bad guy because they like the movies Marvel Studios makes more. It isn't actually an evaluation of the situation. It's just a myopic calculus based on a dedication to the MCU.

  12. #147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    If Spidey is to indeed be gone from the MCU, with JJJ being introduced in Far From Home, with the status quo being changed because of Mysterio outing him, would that mean that will never have happened? No JJJ in the Sony verse? I imagine it’d be like a soft reboot of sorts on whatever comes next with Tom Holland...
    They really don't need to ignore anything. All the contracts that were in place in terms of the actors and crew that were involved in the last two Spider-Man movies were/are with Sony, not Marvel. They can still proceed with Tom Holland as Spider-Man, being outed by Mysterio and dealing with the fallout of that. They just won't be able to reference any of the Marvel stuff, like Tony Stark, "the blip", the Avengers, etc..

  13. #148
    Fantastic Member Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    They really don't need to ignore anything. All the contracts that were in place in terms of the actors and crew that were involved in the last two Spider-Man movies were/are with Sony, not Marvel. They can still proceed with Tom Holland as Spider-Man, being outed by Mysterio and dealing with the fallout of that. They just won't be able to reference any of the Marvel stuff, like Tony Stark, "the blip", the Avengers, etc..
    Appreciate the quick response! Thank you!

  14. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I'm seeing the same attitudes in regards to this as I did when news of Disney buying FOX first started making the rounds.

    People see Sony as the bad guy because they like the movies Marvel Studios makes more. It isn't actually an evaluation of the situation. It's just a myopic calculus based on a dedication to the MCU.
    I get that. But I wish people would just use common sense rather than emotion.

    It would be like having an agreement with your agent for 10% of your income, then after you become successful they turn around and demand 50% of your income and to be able to star in all your films with you.

    No one would agree to this.

  15. #150
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    I'm seeing the same attitudes in regards to this as I did when news of Disney buying FOX first started making the rounds.
    I didn't like that. Mostly because it seemed like Fox were just starting to get their act together with Logan and Deadpool. There's no way Marvel would ever have made a movie like Logan. As it is Feige said that Endgame was inspired by Logan, and Scarlett Johanssen said her Black Widow is also inspired by it. Likewise, Noah Hawley, wrote a script for a solo Doctor Doom movie. We probably won't get that now.

    Fact is competition is good. One studio owning everything isn't always the best. Look at DC/WB, they sat on all the rights of DC for decades, and it's only recently they got their acts together to make a Wonder Woman movie and a Shazam movie. And even then DC's real money is Harry Potter, an original IP made by a poor single mother which is now a billion dollar property.

    People see Sony as the bad guy because they like the movies Marvel Studios makes more. It isn't actually an evaluation of the situation. It's just a myopic calculus based on a dedication to the MCU.
    Yeah, and that's getting dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    They really don't need to ignore anything. All the contracts that were in place in terms of the actors and crew that were involved in the last two Spider-Man movies were/are with Sony, not Marvel. They can still proceed with Tom Holland as Spider-Man, being outed by Mysterio and dealing with the fallout of that. They just won't be able to reference any of the Marvel stuff, like Tony Stark, "the blip", the Avengers, etc..
    That wouldn't be hard to do. The next movie's conflict is Jonah Jameson. He's a Spider-Man character. Sony have a good handle on the guy, considering that the actor who they cast became a bonafide movie star thanks to that, eventually winning an Oscar.

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