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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    Whoa. First, I didn't say that Tom Holland will quit because of fan feelings. Tom Holland will quit because Tom Holland decides to. Please don't bastardize parts of my post together to make a false premise. Secondly, the word "demands" isn't a child stomping and crying. It's also another way of saying "terms".

    The simple truth is that Marvel and Disney know they can march on. Both sides will have some negative impact, but it's just a plain and simple fact that in the wake of this it's Sony that the public turned on. By that measure alone they have more to lose.
    Dude on twitter and all the big sites both Disney and Sony are getting trashed. Even on the MCU sub reddit people are mixed and that should be heavily slanted towards Disney. Don't speak for everyone.

  2. #227
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    I keep seeing people talking about Disney getting Merchandising rights back as part of the Sony deal also. That's incorrect too right didnt they get those back a long time ago? And as great as the movies are the better Value in Spider-Man is the billion+ he earns in Merchandising revenue each year. And the last solid report on this I saw was years ago so with the MCU revitalizing the chatacters popularity I wonder if that number has gone up. Think it was like 1.3b a few years ago that Spidey brought in.

    But yea I think this is getting blown up and this probaly all gets worked out. Probaly just negotiating tactics that werent suppose to get leaked. If they were intentionally leaked I think the information would have been more accurate.
    Our clearest source for the mechanising deal was the Wall Street Journal, when they where piecing together the current deal's terms.

    In a 2011 renegotiation designed to resolve years of behind-the-scenes legal disputes and provide Sony with much-needed cash, the Japanese company gave up its share of merchandise rights and Marvel, now owned by Disney, agreed to forego its 5% of film revenue, as well as making a one-time payment of $175 million and up to $35 million for each future film.

    Note how that is put together. Disney are still paying for their half of the merchandising rights every time Sony make a movie. So technically, if that deal goes South so do the merchandising rights.

    It also puts in perspective where the 5% figure is coming from, because that's what the deal would revert to if everything fell apart.

    Built onto this for the MCU deal was a reciprocal payment from Sony to Marvel for production input for the MCU movies of the same $35 Million meaning no cash changes hands. The 175 million payment probably went into a new ledger marked "Possible Future Spider-Man project" because it coincidentally ended up being the same as the production costs of Homecoming. This gives us a little insight into what was really going on in 2011. They were laying the groundwork for the future once the ASM projects were completed.

    Speculation is that the TV rights were payed for with the 175 Million, and that the money was always supposed to be ear-marked for a co-production project which was also being reported in the press at that time but didn't come to fruition until the MCU deal.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-22-2019 at 09:29 AM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    I kind of agree. Sony showed they can do Spider-Man well on their own with Into the Spider-verse.
    Sony showed they could do make good Spider-Man films with all but 2 of their 6 Spider-Man related films. They also showed that Venom could make mint. They aren't struggling.

    The idea scenario is for both sides to work things out. Sony maybe has to give up a bigger cut of Spider-Man (maybe 10-15%) Disney might have to give Sony 5% of any films Spider-Man related characters are in. And realistically maybe MCU has to incorporate Venom and the villain verse Sony is building and help prop that up.

    Both sides can easily walk away and keep chugging along. Nothing is going to change that. There is more benefit to them working together if they can find numbers and an arragment that makes sense. But if that 50% figure is real, no it's insane and anyone who thinks that it's reasonable is crazy.

  4. #229
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    Stan Lee’s daughter JC sides with Sony. Plus she has a few choice words about Disney greed and lack of sympathy.

    https://www.tmz.com/2019/08/22/stan-...derman-marvel/

  5. #230
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolo View Post
    There are (again) a new info regarding Holland contract with Sony, he is apparently not forced to make a 3rd movie, he have an option according the Hollywood reporter:

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...nymore-1233644
    https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...iderman-movie/

    "the future of Spider-Man is unclear. Holland, sources say, has an option for one more movie, while director Jon Watts is done with his two-picture deal and is free to pursue other projects"

    Holland seem to have unfollowed Sony but continue to follow Marvel Studios in instagram, there are also the fact Marvel have the tv right for Spider-man, so I guess Disney have the possibility to continue in Disney +, that give them a limited format (so no reunion with other heroes in theater); but that would be better than nothing; I still hope that Sony and Disney would sign a new contract.
    In the long run, it might be easier for Sony if they NOT use Holland and just start fresh with Miles. It's sort of a waste of momentum coming off of a billion dollar movie... but it's a little cleaner.

  6. #231
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    I really don’t know what’s the big deal is. He wasn’t in the MCU enough to make any difference and he mainly interacted with Tony. His solo movies was problematic and not to par with the comic book.
    For marvel, it's probably not a big deal.

    But for a lot of the fans it is simply because they want to see Spider-Man interact with the other MCU heroes. Now they won't see that. Not the end of the world, but a Deadpool Spider-Man meeting would have been cool.

  7. #232
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    I do think Disney's demands are ridiculous but I also see Marvel's point of view. They could loan out Feige to Sony and make a few hundred(?) million, or have him produce an in-house movie that might make a billion. It might not be worth it to them, just as it wasn't worth it to Sony to give up 50% of it's profits.

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    Stan Lee’s daughter JC sides with Sony. Plus she has a few choice words about Disney greed and lack of sympathy.

    https://www.tmz.com/2019/08/22/stan-...derman-marvel/
    Does she mention anything about the allegations of elder abuse against her?

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...reator-1101229

  9. #234
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Stan lee's daughter cares more about heart and creativity than about money , control and power. good for her.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-22-2019 at 09:52 AM.

  10. #235
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    I kind of agree. Sony showed they can do Spider-Man well on their own with Into the Spider-verse.
    Sony's batting average with Spider-Man is mixed... but not terrible. There are some great ones, some good ones, and some which left a lot to be desired. Sony, like Fox and WB, can't quite seem to have the same consistency he MCU seems to have.

    There's no reason to think the sky is falling exactly... but I do think the next Sony Spider-Man will be under the microscope. They're following up a billion dollar movie.

  11. #236
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    The simple truth is that Marvel and Disney know they can march on. Both sides will have some negative impact, but it's just a plain and simple fact that in the wake of this it's Sony that the public turned on. By that measure alone they have more to lose.
    By my reading of the situation both sides would end up bringing down the 2011 deal which is the foundational deal that everything else rests upon, meaning the merchandising rights would end up back at 50/50, and Disney would receive 5% of box office within unclear "specified limits".

    In other words the happy merchandising arrangement that Iger was so proud of and said would be lucrative, would disappear along with the ability to exclusively leverage what the Marvel press release said was the $4 Billion franchise that was Spider-Man at the time.

    I think this is what the unnamed source cited by Deadline was trying to say, but it got a bit garbled somehow. Just like every single news piece about the deal since the 2011 deal has got mangled by the press.

    I don't for one minute think this will happen. Nobody would want that.

    Many analysts believe Sony is only tentatively hanging onto their studio, and if they mess up either the James Bond deal or the MCU deal someone will swoop in and buy them at a reduced price because they would not be contributing to the corporation's bottom line. The emerging streaming platforms would love their back catalogue.

    This may be part of why Marvel are playing hardball, if they actually are, because the Spider-Man rights, unlike the X-Men rights may not be transferable to future owners and could end up reverting to Marvel anyway. (This is speculation. Nobody seems to have seen the full details of the original deal. But Forbes seem pretty convinced.)
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-22-2019 at 10:01 AM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    The marvel has no flaws narrative is the gift that keeps on giving.
    I've seen multiple posts by you about this. Can you provide any examples? The only time I've seen this claim is from you.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Stan lee's daughter cares more about heart and creativity than about money , control and power. good for her.
    If you read the article I linked to, you might not believe that wholeheartedly.

  14. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    I've seen multiple posts by you about this. Can you provide any examples? The only time I've seen this claim is from you.
    I've heard him say this before. As far as I can tell, in his mind, if you like the MCU, you're a blind follower who believes they're perfect and shills them over anything else. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  15. #240
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    Does the article even say that?
    Have you not seen the latest Spidey movie ... Peter's secret ID gets blown ...
    What does that even mean?
    It means if Peter Parker, the publicly outed Spider-Man, turns into another power armor, quipy, celebrity super inventor hero.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey View Post
    Perfect story reason to retire peter Parker and premiere miles morales, who conveniently has no ties to the mcu.
    Indeed! I would be down for that.

    There was talk that when renegotiation started that Sony wants to make solo Spidey movies with Miles going forward with no attachment to the MCU and use Holland's Peter as the cameo tie-in and MCU character.
    Quote Originally Posted by DanMad1977 View Post
    Does that mean that Sony has to invent new villains for Spidey, or can they use his rouges gallery?
    Sony has access to ~900 Spider-Man characters. Everything from multiple versions of Spider-Man, supporting characters, Miles and his cast, the Rogues, and characters not often remembered as Spidey characters such as Morbius, Prowler, and Puma.

    There has already been some trades such as Kingpin and Punisher and also apperently Stegron and White Rabbit, too.

    But that's still a ton of characters to choose from.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

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