Spider-Man forced out of the MCU due to failed Sony Deal

[JKtheMac]

Well Tyrese is playing Simon Stroud apparently. A Ex CIA agent who hunts Morbius and Manwolf in the comics. The only way I can see him being in the MCU is if he becomes a supporting character in Moonknight. They can be Ex mercenary buddies and Both have some intrest in the supernatural.

If they persist in the idea of making Spider-Man ‘a menace’ then an old CIA operative wouldn’t be out of place as a minor antagonist in the as yet untitled third Spider-Man movie. Maybe he is brought back into the CIA and asked to look into this new Peter Parker ‘threat’. Just one of many possibilities as the Spider universe gets more fully integrated into the MCU in small but significant ways.

[Jokerz79]

Outside of the Multiverse there is no way do I see Marvel Studios having any Sony Spiderverse film officially connected to the MCU. One day this deal will end and on that day Disney and Marvel won't want Rothman and Pascal's future solo mess in their Universe.

[JKtheMac]

Outside of the Multiverse there is no way do I see Marvel Studios having any Sony Spiderverse film officially connected to the MCU. One day this deal will end and on that day Disney and Marvel won't want Rothman and Pascal's future solo mess in their Universe.

I see this arrangement going on for decades, so I don’t think that’s a big concern. Feige apparently consulted behind the scenes on Venom and there are more ties and unity than the recent headlines suggested.

As I always say about Sony and Marvel, they have worked successfully together for many years now, and the reality is that unless Sony Studios ends up selling-up Marvel need to keep them happy in the long term to maintain control over their highest profile and most valuable IP. This will always provide a reality check for Sony. Drift too far from the deal and there is less potential for closer ties.

I remain convinced we will see a Spider-Man v Venom movie at some point down the line with both main actors and with at least nominal input from Marvel which may or may not be credited. How is that a bad thing for anyone?

Having a Sonyverse character turning up in a Sony/Marvel Spider-Man movie is not a big deal for anyone other than a minority of MCU diehards. Plus, Sony’s job in the ongoing deal has always been to develop IP for more potential crossovers.

The rumours are that Venom was a huge mess after filming and that Tom Rothman took a hands on role in the editing process while consulting with Marvel. That kind of high level consultation over a mostly single studio movie is exactly what we never had with Fox and Marvel.

P.S. There is also a clause in the Sony contract regards transferring rights to another company in the event of a buy-out, so it is in Marvel’s interests to keep Sony Studios going because a potential sale could place Spider-Man in another company’s hands who are less willing to perpetuate the 2011 deal that all later deals have been mere amendments to, just as 2011 was an amendment to the 2004 deal which is itself an amendment of the original deal in 1999.

P.P.S. It is widely reported and taken for granted that Marvel own the merchandising rights, but these are still technically subject to Marvel paying for them every time a film is released and any renegotiation of the 2011 deal by a less friendly company could see everything back on the table.

[TheDarman]

Outside of the Multiverse there is no way do I see Marvel Studios having any Sony Spiderverse film officially connected to the MCU. One day this deal will end and on that day Disney and Marvel won't want Rothman and Pascal's future solo mess in their Universe.

I think the reason Feige agreed to allow them to even have their universe be an adjunct to the MCU is to lay the foundation for more long-term deals in the future. After all, they now will receive 25% of the next Spider-Man movie. I’d bet that that is more important to Disney than allowing Spider-Man to hop over to the Sonyverse and have their films reference the MCU. Plus, I’d bet it gives Feige a little more leeway to work behind the scenes to ensure more quality control over future Sonyverse movies. He had been largely ignored during production of TASM2. Perhaps this time Sony will realize how important the maintenance of their relationship with Marvel is.

[JKtheMac]

I think the reason Feige agreed to allow them to even have their universe be an adjunct to the MCU is to lay the foundation for more long-term deals in the future. After all, they now will receive 25% of the next Spider-Man movie. I’d bet that that is more important to Disney than allowing Spider-Man to hop over to the Sonyverse and have their films reference the MCU. Plus, I’d bet it gives Feige a little more leeway to work behind the scenes to ensure more quality control over future Sonyverse movies. He had been largely ignored during production of TASM2. Perhaps this time Sony will realize how important the maintenance of their relationship with Marvel is.

You are conflating unrelated issues here. The financial arrangements for the licensing of Spider-Man are not really subject to what the MCU is up to. This is why Sony were always in a strong position in these negotiations. Sony could always fall back to the amendment from 2011 and were suggesting they would be happy with that going forward.

The 2015 amendments were just simplified finance arrangements to allow a buy-in of MCU production (i.e. Feige and co) and without that buy-in and specifically Feige‘s input, Sony were prepared to go back to the basic 2011 amendment which would have required Disney to pay back some of their slender box-office percentage as part of the marketing rights.

Importantly this 2011 clause would be the default:

SPE will gain greater leeway to produce, release and promote films while Marvel’s approval over film creative aspects would be eliminated as long as SPE conform to the unambiguous guidelines that has been set regarding Spider-Man’s character and other characteristics

So, even though Disney would have to pay a per movie fee to maintain their exclusive merchandising rights, they wouldn’t have a lot of control over the content, and thereby they may not be inclined to merchandise the movie. Effectively paying up to 35 million capped at 130 million over ten years for movies that they may not want to merchandise.

As I pointed out somewhere much higher, the deal between these two companies in 2015 has made the merchandising rights much more valuable than they were before the deal. A return to 2011 terms would potentially cost Marvel millions more as they revert back to less lucrative comic book only deals.

[Jokerz79]

Marvel/Disney has Spider-Man Animated TV Rights and Merchandising Rights IMO once the Holland run is over this deal is over there is no incentive for Disney to continue it they'll move on like they have with Captain America and Iron Man. They can make cartoons and sell toys that's what is important. I do think they wanted more control over quality control at Sony but without it they'll make sure the public know that the Sonyverse might be part of the Multiverse but it's not in the MCU universe there is a reason Feige mentioned Spidey could jump universes.

[Tofali]

Marvel/Disney has Spider-Man Animated TV Rights and Merchandising Rights IMO once the Holland run is over this deal is over there is no incentive for Disney to continue it they'll move on like they have with Captain America and Iron Man. They can make cartoons and sell toys that's what is important. I do think they wanted more control over quality control at Sony but without it they'll make sure the public know that the Sonyverse might be part of the Multiverse but it's not in the MCU universe there is a reason Feige mentioned Spidey could jump universes.

I would love if Iron boy exits the MCU in Multiverse of Madness. I can just hear Madame Web calling on the boy "on your right" in to a portal he goes lol

[TheDarman]

Marvel/Disney has Spider-Man Animated TV Rights and Merchandising Rights IMO once the Holland run is over this deal is over there is no incentive for Disney to continue it they'll move on like they have with Captain America and Iron Man. They can make cartoons and sell toys that's what is important. I do think they wanted more control over quality control at Sony but without it they'll make sure the public know that the Sonyverse might be part of the Multiverse but it's not in the MCU universe there is a reason Feige mentioned Spidey could jump universes.

I don't think they intend to make it that complicated or creatively taxing to have Spider-Man go between movies. I think the Deadline article laid out perfectly fine. I don't think the Marvel folks are going to acknowledge these films any more as part of their universe than they did Daredevil or Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., and I bet Feige doesn't really consider them part of his cinematic universe, but they were adjuncts to it. I think Sony is fine with their movies being viewed as high profile, high budget adjuncts onto the MCU that continue Spider-Man's story further from his solo outings.

[Joker]

After finally seeing Far From Home, I wish the deal had stayed fallen through. That was barely a Spider-Man movie.

What a total piece of shit movie.

[JKtheMac]

Marvel/Disney has Spider-Man Animated TV Rights and Merchandising Rights IMO once the Holland run is over this deal is over there is no incentive for Disney to continue it they'll move on like they have with Captain America and Iron Man. They can make cartoons and sell toys that's what is important. I do think they wanted more control over quality control at Sony but without it they'll make sure the public know that the Sonyverse might be part of the Multiverse but it's not in the MCU universe there is a reason Feige mentioned Spidey could jump universes.

They only have them because they have an agreement in place. They did purchase them but part of that arrangement is to continue paying per movie. So not fully.

These contracts are in the public domain because they were part of the Sony hack. I don't want to link to wikkileaks here but you can find them if you are interested.

Nobody has ever suggested that the rights issues changed in the 2015 contract, and this is how things stood in the leaked 2011 contract:

-Disney pays Sony 280MM plus 3.5% of each film's BO gross (with a limit of 35MM per film and 130MM every 10 years) to buy them out of merchandising participation

What did happen in 2015 is they agreed to balance out the payment by Sony paying an equal amount to Disney for production participation. (With a success proviso that Disney don’t pay if the movie grosses 700 million) Thats not a change to the merchandising participation thats an amendment to the existing arrangement, just as every deal since the beginning has been an amendment to the previous one.

So, if they can’t agree on Production Participation the deal goes back to the 2011 one which never quite worked out for Disney. The value of merchandise on Spider-Man has increased significantly since 2015 because of the nature of this agreement.

I feel like a stuck record on this point. I have been saying the same thing for years now and just because the press never read the facts everyone disputes it. The press really don’t understand this stuff.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Again the next film isn't due til 2021 or 2022 at most. There is time for Sony/Marvel to strike a longer deal. I do remember that Disney wanted to use Venom in film universe which really helps Sony if that is true. It gets the character a broader audience as well.

[JKtheMac]

Again the next film isn't due til 2021 or 2022 at most. There is time for Sony/Marvel to strike a longer deal. I do remember that Disney wanted to use Venom in film universe which really helps Sony if that is true. It gets the character a broader audience as well.

We can pretty much guarantee that further deals will be done. Disney have made a fortune since 2011 and a lot more since 2015. Much more money than they could have made actually making Spider-Man movies.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

We can pretty much guarantee that further deals will be done. Disney have made a fortune since 2011 and a lot more since 2015. Much more money than they could have made actually making Spider-Man movies.

Well they are footing more into production of these in new deal and getting a bigger piece back. Which makes sense. I think this deal works , the Sony guys can do these side films with help from Disney creatively to make them mesh well. But not have to worry about fitting them into their phases as a whole they set out to do. If Morbius works out , they can use him like Venom down the line in their films.

[Bloxer]

After finally seeing Far From Home, I wish the deal had stayed fallen through. That was barely a Spider-Man movie.

What a total piece of shit movie.

It's always funny to me when people act like they have the authority to dictate what makes a Spider-Man movie or not, especially when the criticism they give towards it doesn't amount to more petty insults.

[jetengine]

It's always funny to me when people act like they have the authority to dictate what makes a Spider-Man movie or not, especially when the criticism they give towards it doesn't amount to more petty insults.

I find it hilarious the same people wishing Sony had Spiderman under their total control seem to be REALLY quiet when Sony announces such....riveting titles as 'Madame Web' and 'Jackpot'