Superman Family vs. Batman Family

[Tzigone]

Well... whenever they reboot the universe, they struggle to explain how their is such a big Batfamily…. but Superman's they just delete, reboot, or erase them

Sad, but true. I mean, they did try some rewriting in New 52 with the Bats, but it didn't stick long before they reverted to something more classic, at least for Dick and Tim. Jason in COIE, of course. Some new elements have stuck (Court of Owls, Haly's involvement) that I deeply dislike, but I can mostly avoid those by avoiding certain storylines. And then, I guess there's the popularity of the changes made. Honestly, except for Jason's rewritten post-COIE history (and I specifically avoided reading much pre-COIE Jason so I wouldn't get attached), I tend to like the original versions. I like Alfred as a later addition to the family, hate the Court of Owls being into Dick before and Pop being a baddie (and how many secret organizations does Gotham need?), Tim's original backstory (even back before the archaeology thing came in, and that's old), Barbara older than Dick and an adult and peer rather than protege of Batman's, etc. Do like Kate more than Kathy, but prefer her as a non-relation. But despite what I like, the changes in Batman's circle have usually been popular. The same can't be said for Superman's.

Perry and especially Jimmy, who used to be family, often got sidelined. Jimmy was best in bronze age, I thought (well, in comics - I also liked radio show). A bit too far with Mister Action, but it was much preferable to the buttmonkey version. Probably doesn't help that people most think of his silver age version, but that doesn't play so well in modern comics. Lana's another bronze-ager that got demoted (though I actually prefer her as a part of Clark's past rather than present and wish she had a good, likeable, non-Lois-expy, non-hero, non-villain adult role if they were going to use her), so that's more family loss. Kara, of course, in COIE, and then the same fate befell each of her replacements. Though she had problems with a consistent supporting cast/location and got de-aged even back then, I think (haven't read much - still, same could be said for some Bats). Kon started fantastic, only to fall victim setting/cast changeup, and then basically be rewritten into an entirely different character. Then, of course, death and resurrection (but really, that's happened to a lot of Bats, too, so that may be wash). He and Chris both got jettisoned, but he was by far the more important (though I liked Chris & Thara). Then Jon Lane Kent, but I haven't read that since I've mostly avoided New52 Superman because of several things about it that sounded unpleasant. And now there's what is happening with Jon.

When they got rid of Steph and Cass, they brought them back. But same can be said of Kon and Kara. Though it took so much longer, especially with Kara.


Steel, like Kate, has always been peripheral to the family to me. They shouldn't be as personally close. Though, actually, despite enjoying some family stuff, I find it frustrating that there isn't more stand-aloneness for some of the Bats. In particular, I feel like Dick, who used stand awesome on his own, has been dragged back into Bruce's shadow and a subordinate role to Batman in the past couple decades (one could argue as early as when COIE re-wrote his transition to Nightwing, but I think that's overstating it). Hanging out sometimes as family stuff is fun. Doing stuff with Tim is great. Going back to being one of Bruce's army/footsoldiers as happens every so often is not. It's a demotion from what he once was. The character has changed so much, and as I said with other changes, it appears to be popular, but I preferred the 1970s-1990s. Likewise, I liked Tim as a Robin with his own family and friends outside the mask and so forth. I much preferred Kon in the "cousin" role he had initially to the "son" role used later. I never wanted Clark to be Kara's guardian. I guess I like the heroes being parents (love Bruce with kid!Dick and Clark with Jon), but I don't like not letting characters grow up (hi Kara) or "regressing" them. Mind you, I also hate speed-aging, and this the second time it's happened to Lois and Clark. I don't even like Wally's kids speed-aging. Will accept for Bart, though, since he was that way from day 1. I also don't like retconning on parent/child relationships that didn't originally exist (Barry/Wally or Alfred/Bruce), but those have, again, been phenomenally popular.

So more popular changes with Bats and more of the same characters staying around for the Bats. I mean, even when Dick wasn't appearing much in Batman stories, he existed. He'd moved on and grown up and done great things. So the audience can still read his stories, and he doesn't feel forgotten about. Big plusses.

[phantom1592]

Sad, but true. I mean, they did try some rewriting in New 52 with the Bats, but it didn't stick long before they reverted to something more classic, at least for Dick and Tim. Jason in COIE, of course. Some new elements have stuck (Court of Owls, Haly's involvement) that I deeply dislike, but I can mostly avoid those by avoiding certain storylines. And then, I guess there's the popularity of the changes made. Honestly, except for Jason's rewritten post-COIE history (and I specifically avoided reading much pre-COIE Jason so I wouldn't get attached), I tend to like the original versions. I like Alfred as a later addition to the family, hate the Court of Owls being into Dick before and Pop being a baddie (and how many secret organizations does Gotham need?), Tim's original backstory (even back before the archaeology thing came in, and that's old), Barbara older than Dick and an adult and peer rather than protege of Batman's, etc. Do like Kate more than Kathy, but prefer her as a non-relation. But despite what I like, the changes in Batman's circle have usually been popular. The same can't be said for Superman's.

Perry and especially Jimmy, who used to be family, often got sidelined. Jimmy was best in bronze age, I thought (well, in comics - I also liked radio show). A bit too far with Mister Action, but it was much preferable to the buttmonkey version. Probably doesn't help that people most think of his silver age version, but that doesn't play so well in modern comics. Lana's another bronze-ager that got demoted (though I actually prefer her as a part of Clark's past rather than present and wish she had a good, likeable, non-Lois-expy, non-hero, non-villain adult role if they were going to use her), so that's more family loss. Kara, of course, in COIE, and then the same fate befell each of her replacements. Though she had problems with a consistent supporting cast/location and got de-aged even back then, I think (haven't read much - still, same could be said for some Bats). Kon started fantastic, only to fall victim setting/cast changeup, and then basically be rewritten into an entirely different character. Then, of course, death and resurrection (but really, that's happened to a lot of Bats, too, so that may be wash). He and Chris both got jettisoned, but he was by far the more important (though I liked Chris & Thara). Then Jon Lane Kent, but I haven't read that since I've mostly avoided New52 Superman because of several things about it that sounded unpleasant. And now there's what is happening with Jon.

I guess I'm a little more picky when I think of 'Family'. Jimmy and Perry are important charactets… but i'll aways think of them as supporting cast. Silver Age Jimmy and Reeve's Jimmy and Lois & Clark Jimmy are all very different... yet still the same Jimmy. He's been modernized, he's lost some stories, and gained others... but it's still 'Jimmy'. You still recognize him as Jimmy. Until the CW at least... I don't know who THAT was, but he was NOT Jimmy Olsen. When I think of Super-Family it's more the powered up versions. Superman, Superboy, Supergirl, Steel, Krypto,... and that's about it. Probably gotta have a Lois in there because... she's LOIS... but that's the core 'FAMILY...' and frankly they could disappear at the drop of a hat. Batman ends up with more just because he's got more. 4 Robins, Batgirl/Oracle... they seem to be immune or at least protected from wipe outs... Can't say that for ALL the Bat-family. Steph, Cass, Signal, Ace, Azrael, and the rest may come and go... but at it's core of the Robins, Nightwing, Barbara Gordon... they'll be recognizable as the world changes around them. Which is more than Superman can say

When they got rid of Steph and Cass, they brought them back. But same can be said of Kon and Kara. Though it took so much longer, especially with Kara.

But are they the same characters? Kara died during Crisis and then 'never existed'.... we got Matrix... we got Earthbound Angel... then we got teen midriff Kara... and now one based more on the series. The 'Superman Family' gets a Supergirl…. but it's always someone new and different with a massive world wipe forgetting the others existed. Same with Kon-el We've gotten a few different versions... but there isn't much consistency between them.

[Jim Kelly]

I think the characters that the public remember are Bruce, Dick, Alfred and Gordon--on the Batman side--Clark, Lois, Jimmy and Perry--on the Superman side. Maybe Batgirl--but people seem to confuse Batwoman with Batgirl and they might not know who Batgirl is. And maybe now Supergirl because of the TV show. None of these characters are blood relatives of Bruce and Clark except Supergirl.

My earliest memory of Superman comics was that there was a Superman family--before I was able to read and I just looked at the pictures. But maybe, with my baby brain, I just assumed that Superman and Lois were the mommy and daddy.

A lot of the 1950s and 1960s comics played Jimmy off as if he was like a son to Clark. And I wouldn't sell those comics short--it seems to me, with my mature brain, that Otto Binder was being much more true to life in the Jimmy character than most characters of the day or even characters now. Jimmy was not that heroic, he was vain, he two-timed women, he made stupid decisions, he fell for get rich schemes, he was easily led astray, he practiced deception, he got himself married under false pretenses. He was a flawed, young male. He wasn't a role model--he had all the natural imperfections of a regular human being and one could identify with him for that reason. Seeing how he endured setbacks of his own making was both funny and enlightening.

[nhienphan2808]

Batfamily resembles a family more, because of Dick Grayson. He kept his mess of family in a coherent timeline through whatever crisis. There's no other like him in other fams and entire DCU.

There's no other Robins and the other sidekicks without him , not only in the sense of actual comic writing (things like Batman put guns down and Batman and Superman shared their universe because of him), that Batman did it first, but in his character too. Oneil and Miller tries their damdest to exclude Robin in early Batlman's development, but after the Crisis Nightwing would just banged into the cave and said "Why you no remember my time as Robin". Even now when Didio has tried 5 times to kill him, he still reminds readers that "I was there". He was the reason we have to sweat about "consistent" portrayal of Batman and others he impacted as heroes.

Other Titans could come close because they kept their development through eras and crisises too, yet they still can't compare to him in consistency, because Batman's herosim thoroughly depends on his existence. Batman did it first so everybody copied him, but Wonder Woman didn't NEED Donna, Green Arrow didnt NEED Roy, the Flash didn't NEED Wally, and so on, just like Superman only need a Lois and his friend and not a sidekick who resembles him.