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  1. #316
    Amazing Member Gladiator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    He looked fine on here comes tomorrow, i think it is posible for him look good on POX future without any enhancements
    Attachment 86067

    Yes, I couldn’t remember the name of the story.

  2. #317
    Spectacular Member Criticalfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    It's not there because he deals with that lifetime (not timeline) directly in the next two issues (3 and 4) of HoX, starting next week?
    Just a wild, crazy guess.
    Oh, yes of course. I just hoped one panel of it could be this week.

    These issues are still amazing, interesting, and thought provoking. One quibble doesn't mean I think they're bad.

  3. #318
    Amazing Member mike627's Avatar
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    This was a great read.It explains Moria's plans with Charles and Erik if she was reborn in with the knowledge of Nimrod then we have the raid on Mother Mold.As any of ya wondered what exactly happened to the non-mutant super heroes? I think the Machines and Humans turned on them as well.Like Claremont has always said would happen.
    "If you look up at me you will see a friend. If you look down at me you will see an enemy. But if you look me square in the eye you will see a God."-Bray Wyatt

  4. #319
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    I am not sure if Moira is going to come out of this event alive or not either. She may, or she may be put in stasis as a failsafe to reset the timeline if everything goes south as it has in previous lifetimes.

    I do think there is a very good chance that Irene is going to be brought back in the pods, in fact, I think that is what Mystique wants from Krakoa, she wants Irene back if it's possible to resurrect her.
    I think it is established that Destiny is there to make sure someone keeps Moira in check when she is not present, now as we know Destiny is not immortal but with her powers, she can make sure the Moira is still kept in check even from the beyond teh grave. Like when she left a diary with visions of the future everyone wanted or when she told Mystique what she needed to do in order to bring back someone from the dead (Logan at the time though she thought it was her).

    Now according to her, she gets ten tries at life with an eleventh under the right set of circumstances, we are currently in the 10th life where she brought Xavier and Magneto together, separated from them for as of yet unknown reasons and faked her death. Her 9th life as part working with Apocalypse lasted long enough to the point she knows that Nimrod grows to powerful and Logan kills her in order to reset with the knowledge on how to stop his rise (supposedly because before the 10th life we have seen taht nothing stops teh rise of the Sentinels).

    The questions I currently have are: what happened to cause the separation from Charles and Erik? Is she on Krakoa in that section we can't see? Will the mission to stop Mother Mold be the start of Nimrod's downfall or Ascension? Will the sixth timeline that is currently missing reveal something critical to the story like the Apocalyspe timeline did? Is Destiny still a factor here even though she is likely dead?

  5. #320
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike627 View Post
    This was a great read.It explains Moria's plans with Charles and Erik if she was reborn in with the knowledge of Nimrod then we have the raid on Mother Mold.As any of ya wondered what exactly happened to the non-mutant super heroes? I think the Machines and Humans turned on them as well.Like Claremont has always said would happen.
    Of course, they did, in the map for the timeline it says that when the Apocalypse War starts one of the events that happened was the fall of Avengers world in year 45 (I love that Hickman makes the effort to add that little nugget ^_^) and before teh rise of teh muatnt cities of Akkaba, Tian and Kyr.

  6. #321
    New Mutant TOTALITY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    The questions I currently have are: what happened to cause the separation from Charles and Erik? Is she on Krakoa in that section we can't see? Will the mission to stop Mother Mold be the start of Nimrod's downfall or Ascension? Will the sixth timeline that is currently missing reveal something critical to the story like the Apocalyspe timeline did? Is Destiny still a factor here even though she is likely dead?
    The separation noted on the timeline probably refers to the start of X-Men vol 2 (1991) when Magneto returns to his villainous ways. There may be more to it than we saw, but it may not need more as it involves Magneto accusing Moira of compromising his free will along with his DNA. This page is crazy post-HOX/POX. Moira’s “you were a child again [...] with a second chance to live your life over again.” Crazy.



    I have thoughts on your other questions that kind of flow logically in the reverse of the order in which you’ve posed them! I’ve stated parts of this theory several times on this board but this is probably the most thoroughly I’ve spelled it out...

    Ever since HOX2 I’ve been thinking that it feels like too big of a coincidence that Destiny was killed on Muir Isle (Uncanny #255). By Legion. And also that Moira’s son Proteus is never mentioned in any of her lives before the current one. And that it seems suspect that Moira, who has lived the most interesting life imaginable, would suddenly take interest in basic human dirtbag Joseph MacTaggert at this stage. So I’m thinking that somehow, she arranged to conceive Proteus in her 10th life (but did not plan to be raped because that would be super problematic — they’ve gotta come up with a pretty good workaround for that. I’m thinking that life 6 will end up being that she starts out wanting to kill the Trasks like we see in life 7, but is derailed when she’s assaulted by Joseph MacTaggert and gives birth to Proteus, which is how she knows to do that in life 10, and they haven’t shown us that because then these pieces start to put themselves together. Not sure about how it works in life 10 though.. maybe there is no rape in life 10, and those memories from life 6 are just used as cover while Sinister extracts his DNA or something? Hmmmm) and maybe that means Legion was also intentionally conceived in life 10. And maybe that plan included having Legion take Destiny out.

    But why would Moira need Destiny gone if she isn’t betraying mutantkind anymore? Wellllll I’m kind of worrying that there are levels to Moira’s plan that Charles and Erik aren’t privy to, which would put her in more villainous territory at least from most people’s perspective if not her own. Especially after this last issue ended with things looking a little too clean for the 5th issue out of 12.. she got the one bit of information she needed, and now Cyclops is being sent to handle it? I wonder if she’s waiting for Nimrod’s creation to re-emerge, but maybe not to stop it? What if she has a hand in Krakoa AND Orchis? I don’t know what I think villainous Moira looks like, I’m just thinking these Destiny/Legion/Proteus connections are going to be a thing. And I kind of hope Moira stays as heroic as we’ve always thought her to be, especially now! The suspense as we wait to find out is killing me.
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    Last edited by TOTALITY; 08-22-2019 at 09:57 PM. Reason: better image hopefully

  7. #322
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOTALITY View Post
    But why would Moira need Destiny gone if she isn’t betraying mutantkind anymore? Wellllll I’m kind of worrying that there are levels to Moira’s plan that Charles and Erik aren’t privy to, which would put her in more villainous territory at least from most people’s perspective if not her own.
    Well, where do we start. I have had this feeling from HoX #1 that this story is partly analogous to Big Data. The difficulty of analysis when your data set is overwhelmingly large. ie, how do you create the future after ten lifetimes of experience. There are so many variables and so many potential little things that could derail you. But there are constants too, things Moira can rely upon. She can use these constants to manipulate the variables, or in chaos theory they might have called them ‘strange attractors’. Patterns of data that don’t exactly repeat but do generally follow the same path.

    In that context what are these constants. Xavier’s dream, Erik’s radical philosophy, Apocalypse’s warped notion of evolution, the inevitability of the Sentinels, Destiny watching on, perhaps Sinister’s agenda.

    Moira has experienced most and possibly all of these at first hand, up close and personal. She has profiled them, measured them and to an extent can predict their effects. She can use them.

    I don’t know about you, but a character in the background that uses people by subverting their dreams, aspirations and philosophical outlook to her own agenda doesn’t sound like a hero.

    Aside from this, Big Data and manipulation of populations is a hot button topic at the moment, see my other post here.

    The more one reads Hickman, the more one begins to see how he thinks, what his obsessions are. When you have pod people that may be resurrected mutants, Sinister making chimera and using them as weapons I can’t help seeing a commentary on how our culture uses our data. Big plans with individuals as tools. Large structures like Krakoa that change people’s perceptions and goals subtly. A polarised world entering a new Cold War. Look outside your window. Is it that different?

    Moira is pulling the strings. But what is she shaping? Regardless, is she truly asking for informed consent?
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 08-23-2019 at 03:00 AM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  8. #323
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    One possible explanation for old man Logan being that old is that Logan's healing factor is effected by his guilt over killing the x-men this was seen with Daken who was told that his guilt over his father death was the reason he had trouble regrowing his arm in the orphans of x arc.

  9. #324
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    I just read this entire thread (and wow, you guys are as nuts as I am!) and I haven't seen anyone mention something that came to my attention: Moira is referred to as "Mother" in this 9th life.... Is it simply a coincidence that the X-men are about to attack the "Mother Mold"? I can't remember a Sentinel (maker or otherwise) ever referred to by that name before.

  10. #325
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    He looked fine on here comes tomorrow, i think it is posible for him look good on POX future without any enhancements
    Attachment 86067
    Silvestri's Wolverine was/is...moisture-inducing...sigh.

  11. #326
    Incredible Member Viteh's Avatar
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    There must be something else to Moira's plans for life 10. Just stopping Nimrod from being built won't change anything. That was the whole point of life 7. The machines always rise up. Perhaps she will try to make him sympathetic to mutants instead?

  12. #327
    Spectacular Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthBubba View Post
    I just read this entire thread (and wow, you guys are as nuts as I am!) and I haven't seen anyone mention something that came to my attention: Moira is referred to as "Mother" in this 9th life.... Is it simply a coincidence that the X-men are about to attack the "Mother Mold"? I can't remember a Sentinel (maker or otherwise) ever referred to by that name before.
    I could have sworn reading a theory that Miora somehow becomes assimilated into Mothermold or
    Something along those lines. Again completely crazy and off the wall but so is this entire story lol

  13. #328
    Spectacular Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viteh View Post
    There must be something else to Moira's plans for life 10. Just stopping Nimrod from being built won't change anything. That was the whole point of life 7. The machines always rise up. Perhaps she will try to make him sympathetic to mutants instead?

    There’s definitely more to her plans in this particular lifeline then simply stopping Nimrod. I’ve always thought that lifeline 10 was going to end in failure and her death....which would lead to her 11th life and Dawn of X.

  14. #329
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    There’s definitely more to her plans in this particular lifeline then simply stopping Nimrod. I’ve always thought that lifeline 10 was going to end in failure and her death....which would lead to her 11th life and Dawn of X.
    Now THIS is a theory I can get behind.
    While I speculated that DoX was going to be a brand new start for the X-Men/Mutants...I didn't factor in the possibility of Moira's death being the catalyst of the new Dawn.
    It's not for nothing that HiX-man intimated at a possible 11th life.

  15. #330
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Hickman is unlikely to pull the same trick twice. Showing a life suddenly end and going to an new iteration is a one trick pony. So I would imaging we can discount M11 theories now. <fingers crossed>
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

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