Powers of x [03] : This is what you do (spoilers)

[JKtheMac]

I suspect almost everything on the map is an oblique reference to something undefined as yet. That’s what I would do if I made a map. Just use evocative sounding words and make them fit what I wrote later on.

[HomoSuperior]

If only there was a paternal mutant that built a machine to track mutants using telepathy. Because just maybe his data recording apparatus would be a mind recording machine.

But that would make Professor Xavier a creepy jerk!

shaun_of_the_dead_4.jpg

[jamesslow]

That makes a lot of sense. I'd forgotten that Xavier was placed in "The World". The connection with Fantomex is quite obvious also, since Charles is in his body.

Maybe Xavier woke up one day and decided to find a solution to the mutant-man-machine problem by running X simulations in The World and he chose Moira (or she volunteered, I hope) as the person who's been with him from the beginning.

[xSonOfTheAtomx]

I agree with your theory that X^3 may be Life 6 in which Moira makes a very long play and seeks to integrate mutants with machines however the Ascension fails and she returns to Life 7 determined to kill all the Trasks.

I think Life 10 ends with Moira finally realising she's making the entire universe reset after 10, 100 or 1000 years and this has to stop with her dying at age 13 in Life 11, which then becomes the 616 (1963) timeline that we know - except she doesn't die but loses her mutant power together with all memory of her past lives.

(Alt-theory: Note that the latest diagram shows the very info which Moira died in Life 9 to transmit to herself in Life 10 --that Nimrod came online in Year 50-- but this will only come to pass if she does nothing to change events. If this is so, then Life 10 (HOX) could be our 616 timeline and Moira submits to making the same mistakes (such as falling into the abusive arms of Joseph MacTaggart etc) because, if she did otherwise, then Nimrod may not come online in Year 50. The only bait-and-switch she was forced to do was to use a Sh'iar golem to fake her death in our 616 history.)

Moira dying at age 13 in 616 doesn't make much sense, but I do believe that if life 11 is Earth -616 and she is somehow alive (maybe that Shiar Golem again?) they would have to find a way to depower her.
I'm also thinking that maybe she is alive in Earth-616, but she losted her powers after M-Day; so when she die, she won't reset the entire universe.

I also suspect Rasputin and Xorn got sent to our 616 timeline through the singularity, and your English is 100% comprehensible, great job on all counts!

Thank you.
And yes, I think most of X^2 characters (including maybe evil Karima) could show up anywhere/anywhen. Plus, I'm not sure Xorn singularity was ever mentioned as a black hole in X^2. So it could be anything really.

Hello and welcome to the discussion! I’m very much in the same position as you, in that these Hickman books have brought me back to X-Men and these forums after several years of drifting away.

Personally I’m skeptical that X^3 could be life 6, because the next several plans after that would seem to be thinking way too small if she’s already reached the point of trying to ascend from mortal culture entirely. I strongly suspect that whatever life 6 is, it simply won’t be some grand plan that would have fit with that montage in HOX #2, but a mostly botched run that nevertheless provides some crucial piece of the plan for life 10. Of course I also strongly suspect that that involves Proteus, but I won’t bore everyone with the details of that again!

I also wrote way too much already about why I don’t think “616” is life 11, on page 24 of this thread..

I’m not sure Cardinal would need or want a bag full of terminal Apocalypse seeds because I thought the implication there was that a ‘terminal’ seed would kill him, and he only took that one because it was a suicide mission anyway.

Thank you for the welcome.

I didn't realize the terminal seed implided that Cardinal was killing himself, but it makes total sense.

As for all of the unexplained discrepancies in the present day of House of X... I think it’s probably still pretty similar to what most people were assuming after the first issue: that there was a bit of a time jump between the conclusion of Rosenberg’s Uncanny run and this new story, and Hickman was free to ignore anything he wanted, with the assumption that anything *could* be explained by a hypothetical unseen story between issues, though whether they actually will explain every resurrection or allegiance shift probably varies on a case by case basis. But I don’t think it’s timeline shenanigans... I think we all got fixated on that when Moira X was introduced, but I think that will fade as it goes and it will probably become clear that this story is more linear and grounded in one reality than HOX #2 had us thinking.

But I keep thinking how genius it was to put those creepy pod births on the very first page of the series. It’s like Hickman knew exactly how short our attention spans are. Ever since HOX #2 like 99% of speculation I see focuses on this or that timeline, while I hardly ever see anyone mention the creepy pods, and that’s just such a crazy thing to be on the first page and not mention at least once every day in these discussions. lollll

I guess you could be right. Still, adult mutants coming out from Krakoans pods and Xavier saying "To me my X-Men" with a creepy face in Earth-616 would need to be explained. It's true, is such a powerful image to start a story with.

I can see X^3 bringing Moira up so high in attempts to combine mutants with their worst enemy only to fall back down to becoming an assassin. She loses her humanity in the Ascension and probably any connection to human morals. She no longer is here to just give mutants a home, but to also eliminate any threat that could come up against mutantkind. I think that’s the reason she has such a radical shift from trying to establish Utopia/Genosha with Xavier to ending the Trask line before they can create Sentinels which leads to Nimrod.

Right. I also think Life 6 is when Moira finally decide to give up trying things the Xavier's way, so the next life she tries something more radical, and so on in every life -->

1°: lives as human
2°: study biology, found Muir Island Research Institute
3°: became mutant hater, finds mutant cure; but Destiny convinced her to work for the sake of mutants
4°: her first attemp to save mutants: reach out for Xavier, create the school
5°: push the dream further: she establish a mutat nation with Xavier; but Sentinels attack
6° SPECULATION HERE: after being killed by Sentinels, she tries the AI solution
7°: After realizing working with AI is impossible, she tries to eliminate AI creation
8°: tries Magneto's way
9°: tries Apocalypse's way

Every life she tries something more radical, so some theories saying Moira may be loosing HER moral compass with each life makes total sense. That would made Life 10's plan really extremist.

[Devaishwarya]

If her 9th Life is Year 100...and her 10th Life is Year 10 then...Year 1000 could be showing part of her *missing* 6th Life.
Moira is alive, but is yet to take an active part in her 10th Life in HoX...probably because there's knowledge she got in the 6thL that proves to be the fulcrum around which the ending of H0X/PoX resolves.

Crazy speculations aside...I just LOVE how this entire story so far is absolutely unpredictable (even with the few speculations that have proven true so far).

[Gladiator]

Has anyone noticed to two mentions of “the first horseman?” He/she is mentioned on the 9th life in HoX2 and PoX3.

It might be “the final horseman.” I have to go back and look.

[RD155]

From what I’ve read there seems to be quite a bit of pushback in regards to Moira being “portrayed” in a more villainous light. Maybe villain is a poor choice of words...but it’s not like she hasn’t already walked that tightrope between good and evil in her timelines. Moira has already engaged in some shady things in her attempts to save mutants. It wouldn’t be that much of a stretch for her to edge further over the line. Honestly with everything she’s seen and experienced, I don’t see how anyone could blame her. It’s almost a natural progression at this point.

[Devaishwarya]

I'm hoping it's on a morally grey/questionable path rather than full on villainy.
I do think at some point in her many lives she would have come to the realisation that in order to save mutant kind or have a fighting chance at survival, she/they have to stop playing "fair" or by the same rules...hence Xavier's ideology-turn.
When she shows up in-story...it will be a Moira-X with ALL the knowledge of her past lives ready and willing to Frakk Shytt Up! (I'm hoping).

[RD155]

I'm hoping it's on a morally grey/questionable path rather than full on villainy.
I do think at some point in her many lives she would have come to the realisation that in order to save mutant kind or have a fighting chance at survival, she/they have to stop playing "fair" or by the same rules...hence Xavier's ideology-turn.
When she shows up in-story...it will be a Moira-X with ALL the knowledge of her past lives ready and willing to Frakk Shytt Up! (I'm hoping).

I agree with the morally grey angle...

at at this stage like Magneto and Charles discuss the goal isn’t “surviving” anymore. They’re looking to flat out thrive. In each of Moira’s timelines the mutants barely If ever survive. It might be time to switch things up and stop playing “fair”.

Also comics have evolved to the point where there really aren’t any good or bad guys anymore. It pretty much just depends on what mood a particular character is in when they get out of bed that morning lol.

[TOTALITY]

I think it might be fully villainous at the speed at which the X-Men have always lived their lives, and look more heroic the further you pull back, the more individuals look like tiny dots in a more important whole, and the conflict and drama can come from how much each character is willing or able to see things that way (not a lot for most X-Men and readers, I’m guessing.)

Has anyone noticed to two mentions of “the first horseman?” He/she is mentioned on the 9th life in HoX2 and PoX3.

It might be “the final horseman.” I have to go back and look.

The timelines in HOX2 and POX3 respectively note Moira and Apocalypse “rescuing the first Horsemen and returning to Earth” in year 24, suggesting they are out waiting in space, and in year 98 notes their death along with the fall of Krakoa. The “Final Horsemen” were a thing in Remender’s Uncanny X-Force... they were also lying dormant waiting for Apocalypse to wake them, having been created by Apocalypse in ancient times, but I think they were on Earth? But I would guess the “First Horsemen” are a play on that concept. It could be something Hickman intends to bring in soon, since anything that old wouldn’t be unique to just one of Moira’s lives, or it could be worldbuilding mostly for texture, in a “save it for later” way.

[jwatson]

This might sound totally crazy but what if the X-men coming out of the pods aren't being born again. What if in this life yes they have all effectively been rebooted by what Xavier is doing via karoka is instilling them with all the knowledge they accumulated over their past lifes. It's a great way to honor all the past history and connections while making them new. Just a thought on the pods.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

I think it might be fully villainous at the speed at which the X-Men have always lived their lives, and look more heroic the further you pull back, the more individuals look like tiny dots in a more important whole, and the conflict and drama can come from how much each character is willing or able to see things that way (not a lot for most X-Men and readers, I’m guessing.)



The timelines in HOX2 and POX3 respectively note Moira and Apocalypse “rescuing the first Horsemen and returning to Earth” in year 24, suggesting they are out waiting in space, and in year 98 notes their death along with the fall of Krakoa. The “Final Horsemen” were a thing in Remender’s Uncanny X-Force... they were also lying dormant waiting for Apocalypse to wake them, having been created by Apocalypse in ancient times, but I think they were on Earth? But I would guess the “First Horsemen” are a play on that concept. It could be something Hickman intends to bring in soon, since anything that old wouldn’t be unique to just one of Moira’s lives, or it could be worldbuilding mostly for texture, in a “save it for later” way.

I am starting a theory that THOSE first horsemen are Karakoa Vulcan and Darwin

[TOTALITY]

I am starting a theory that THOSE first horsemen are Karakoa Vulcan and Darwin

Oh, Krakoa being tied to the First Horsemen space-trip is an interesting thought, since the Krakoa from Giant Size #1 did get launched into space. I was assuming that’s what Asteroid K was. They wouldn’t need to go to space for Krakoa though, right? I mean I guess they could, and might have to if say, the First Horsemen were on that island when it was sent into orbit (was Apocalypse the one who mutated the island in the first place maybe??) but where did the Krakoas from Aaron’s Wolverine and the X-Men come from? I literally can’t remember.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

Oh, Krakoa being tied to the First Horsemen space-trip is an interesting thought, since the Krakoa from Giant Size #1 did get launched into space. I was assuming that’s what Asteroid K was. They wouldn’t need to go to space for Krakoa though, right? I mean I guess they could, and might have to if say, the First Horsemen were on that island when it was sent into orbit (was Apocalypse the one who mutated the island in the first place maybe??) but where did the Krakoas from Aaron’s Wolverine and the X-Men come from? I literally can’t remember.

I was thinking of deadly genesis.

[TOTALITY]

I was thinking of deadly genesis.

Ahhh of course! I guess Vulcan and Darwin don’t make sense for you to have brought up in any other way, haha. Obviously the specifics of that story would be hard to reconcile with what we know of Moira’s 9th life and the notion of “first” Horsemen, and you probably weren’t proposing that to actually be scrutinized or anything anyway, but now you’ve got me wondering if *any* of that story will be acknowledged. Seems like the only way is to retcon it to oblivion. Especially the part about Krakoa’s sentience being just an illusion from Xavier.... but I guess that it centers on more smoke and mirrors from Xavier is just a baked-in ticket to retcon it any which way they like.

I’m thinking Deadly Genesis must have been a big topic around here circa HOX #1... I didn’t start checking in here again til a ways into the HOX #2 discourse!