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  1. #1
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Default Kaguya and co vs 7 Deadly Sins/Holy Knights

    Kaguya, Madara(reincarnated), Obito(10 tails absorbed), Kabutomaru, Nagato(Edo Tensei version)

    They take on the 7 Deadly Sins(current power levels).

    Kabutomaru's Edo Tensei army takes on all the Holy Knights, and King Arthur and his forces.

    Fight takes place on the Battlefield where the Ninja Warrior took place.

  2. #2
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Speed feats for the Sins are kind of lacking here.

    They are ambiguously really fast but it's really tough to get an accurate read on them.
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  3. #3
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Wait, Kaguya's here?

    Can't she just dimension dump the Sins and call it a day?
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Wait, Kaguya's here?

    Can't she just dimension dump the Sins and call it a day?
    Theoretically she could. But she actually needs to travel along to the dimension she's transporting her target. Then she can ditch them there, but she can just make somebody teleport there on their own. And the teleportation doesn't disrupt any previous movement, so if a fist is about to crash into her face when she initiates the technique she's still getting hit in the face.

  5. #5
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    Theoretically she could. But she actually needs to travel along to the dimension she's transporting her target. Then she can ditch them there, but she can just make somebody teleport there on their own. And the teleportation doesn't disrupt any previous movement, so if a fist is about to crash into her face when she initiates the technique she's still getting hit in the face.
    But she could still just whip all seven away and then they win whether she makes it back or not, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    But she could still just whip all seven away and then they win whether she makes it back or not, right?
    Yeah, but there's also the possibility that Gowther brain jacks her and gets her to take them back. Merlin could just teleport her into Gowther's arrows to make sure of that.

  7. #7
    I turn into a BIRD! The Dog's Avatar
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    Question: Can the Sins survive multiple giant meteors dropped directly on top of them? Because that's one of many OP moves in Madara's playbook.
    Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dog View Post
    Question: Can the Sins survive multiple giant meteors dropped directly on top of them? Because that's one of many OP moves in Madara's playbook.
    Several of them should be able to do so just fine yes. And quite a few of them should be able to destroy the meteors as well.

  9. #9
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Soul # 7 View Post
    Several of them should be able to do so just fine yes. And quite a few of them should be able to destroy the meteors as well.
    Yeah, firepower is not the issue here.

    Speed and gimmicks. That's what wins this for the Naruto side in my mind.
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  10. #10
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    Just noticed that the Holy Knights are taking on Kabuto's zombie army. The zombies win that one.

    The holy knights have no reliable way to seal away the zombies and they can't really beat the constant regen thing the zombies have going. They're also somewhat outnumbered in terms of relevant characters.

  11. #11
    Incredible Member Morning's Avatar
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    So, at a certain point in NNT, the author seems to have decided that it was no longer practical to use environmental effects to show the new strength of his characters. Absent any objective frame of reference, we have to rely on pure XYZ powerscaling. I once, elsewhere, spent a long time on that and concluded that beggining-of-series Sins are around kage level, even weak Holy Knights are the equivalent of strong jounin, and mid-tier NNT characters already surpass all top tier Naruto ones. By the current NNT arc, such characters would be tissues in a hurricane.

    So yeah, it's my opinion that Kaguya's team gets utterly blitzed--any immortals get trapped, turned to stone, bfred, whatever.

    As for the second part... Very few of the holy knights have any kind of sealing magic or compelling esoterics. Vivian is the biggest threat, as she can fly, use perfect cube and bfr with teleportation, and Hendrickson can use Hellfire (which apparently negates regeneration), but that's still just two people who aren't at all used to fighting enemies with as many tricks and tactics as ninja. Edo army wins, even if it takes a while.

  12. #12
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    I don't disagree with the level of firepower and strength, NNT is more than covered on that front.

    I personally don't see how the speed gets up there myself. The best yardstick is Galand and his teleport dodge and then Meliodas with his full power blitzing him with impunity. Beyond that, there's not much in the way of speed feats to speak of.
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  13. #13
    Incredible Member Morning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    I don't disagree with the level of firepower and strength, NNT is more than covered on that front.

    I personally don't see how the speed gets up there myself. The best yardstick is Galand and his teleport dodge and then Meliodas with his full power blitzing him with impunity. Beyond that, there's not much in the way of speed feats to speak of.
    Rather than starting with Galan, let's see how we get to him. Gilthunder has a lightning-timing feat in the first arc (https://imgur.com/a/UsUs3) and Meliodas--base form, beginning of series--outspeeds him so badly he looks bored (https://imgur.com/a/RUyEX ; https://imgur.com/a/ULm6W).

    That level of Meliodas is still so much slower than Guila that she treats him and Ban with bored contempt (https://imgur.com/a/4ifTh8U)

    But Meliodas has a two-stage demon mode, each of which massively amps his stats:
    Here's Stage 1, effortlessly blitzing Ban (who is amped on basically ALL of Meliodas' base form power): https://imgur.com/a/OyY0d
    Stage 2, conveniently against the same Guila who was too fast for both of them before: https://imgur.com/a/SWV5n

    So already we're in "blitzing people faster than people who blitz lightning timers" territory. That kind of speed would be extremely rare in Naruto. And this is only Chapter 45.

    Then Galan happens: VS Stage 1 (https://imgur.com/a/wwzgTI6) VS Stage 2 (https://imgur.com/a/17YCIvY)
    Stage 1 Meliodas, effectively fast enough to blitz his own base form, is still blitzable by Galan. Stage 2 does land (useless) hits on Galan, but it's strongly implied that Galan is only testing his strength, as Mel is still unable to defend himself from Galan's next simple attack in any way.

    Then Meliodas gets his mid-tier power back (https://imgur.com/a/nyeZv) and blitzes Galan over and over again with ease (https://imgur.com/a/a6CRQ ; https://imgur.com/a/nEE1y ; https://imgur.com/a/dFjyB). Notice Meliodas is relaxing in base form the whole time.

    At this point, I'd say that's the ballgame. Base form mid-tier Meliodas is at the top of the Naruto speed curve at least, and his demon forms would blitz his base form like a statue. And after this, we still have hundreds of chapters of new characters and even more unreasonable powerups to wade through.


    EDIT: this is just my interpretation. You could argue that some of this is too vaguely depicted or dismiss the Gilthunder feat as an outlier. But as it's basically the only objective reference point we ever get, I wouldn't advise it.
    Last edited by Morning; 08-22-2019 at 10:35 AM.

  14. #14
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    See, now that power curve seems to be largely predicated on a generous interpretation of the initial lightning bolt feat. I'll note that your link doesn't actually show the final page where we see that Gilthunder has dodged the reflection but I looked it up.

    For me that sequence is problematic on two counts. Firstly, it's Gilthunder dodging a reflected blast from Meliodas that he would have known was coming because he's familiar with how Full Counter works. Second, there's a real lack of corroborating feats of speed that match the level of being able to cleanly dodge lightning in the setting at that time.

    In the first arc, Meliodas and co have some level of super speed but I don't think it's on the level of high tier Naruto guys. The presentation of their speed doesn't feel consistent enough to grant them that high level off one feat.
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  15. #15
    Incredible Member Morning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    See, now that power curve seems to be largely predicated on a generous interpretation of the initial lightning bolt feat.
    While this is an understandable complaint, I feel like it holds up well enough on its own.

    We see the swords start to swing, we see the lightning emerge from the cloud; and we see the sword strike complete concurrently with the lightning strike. So either it was "slow" lightning (though do we not tend to treat normal-looking lightning from the sky as the genuine article?) or Gil's swing speed is proportional to lightning over the smaller distance it needs to travel. Another interpretation is that Gil simply triggers the lightning to strike at the moment he completes the swing, but that doesn't change the fact that Meliodas easily counters said lightning.

    As you have pointed out, Gil then dodges the reflected lightning, which further supports that he is that fast.

    Later, we get a very clear look at Meliodas staring at a lightning bolt from the sky with enough time to counter it. https://imgur.com/a/tf8vT

    The manga never gives any other objective reference points for speed. If we throw this out, even Galan's teleportation-dodge feat is useless to us, because the only thing we know about the speed of teleportation is that it seems instantaneous to the likes of Meliodas. You either have to accept it or not.

    The presentation of their speed doesn't feel consistent enough to grant them that high level off one feat.
    What does that mean? How, in a manga, would you be able to tell whether a couple of speedster are going Mach 30 or Mach 300, in the absence of objective frame of reference?
    Last edited by Morning; 08-22-2019 at 12:48 PM.

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