History of the Marvel Universe #2: No sir, They're saying Siancong!

[kilderkin]

The art of issue one seemed to be applauded but to me it felt all over the place,this didn't change my mind really

[Woozie]

The art of issue one seemed to be applauded but to me it felt all over the place,this didn't change my mind really

What does this criticism even mean? Like I can't parse what it's suggesting when i look at Rodriguez' work.

[thwhtGuardian]

Couple things really surprised me here. Firstly I thought it was a little strange that they kept Doctor Strange's origin as happening in the late 60's, I guess magic could explain why he isn't ancient in the current period but it seemed a little weird that they didn't just slide him further along the time line to make it easier. Likewise they moved the Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom out of the 50's which is needed...but they only bumped them up to the 70's. Maybe they got stuck in the phantom zone and only escaped recently as other wise it would be strange that they were so young unless you hand wave it away with cosmic rays instead? Again though, why complicate it when you could just slide them forward.

And although I liked consolidating the various military characters not having served in WWII as being in the same war it did create a little bit of an inplausabilty for two of the characters involved: Frank Castle and Rhodey. I get that the Vietnam period is important to the Punisher...but he's just a regular guy so magic or cosmic rays can't explain why he doesn't look like a 60 year old man in the current day and the same goes with Rhodey. I mean, if you wanted them to be older than your average hero I would think the first Gulf War would be more realistic but that's just me.

[Electricmastro]

Couple things really surprised me here. Firstly I thought it was a little strange that they kept Doctor Strange's origin as happening in the late 60's, I guess magic could explain why he isn't ancient in the current period but it seemed a little weird that they didn't just slide him further along the time line to make it easier. Likewise they moved the Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom out of the 50's which is needed...but they only bumped them up to the 70's. Maybe they got stuck in the phantom zone and only escaped recently as other wise it would be strange that they were so young unless you hand wave it away with cosmic rays instead? Again though, why complicate it when you could just slide them forward.

And although I liked consolidating the various military characters not having served in WWII as being in the same war it did create a little bit of an inplausabilty for two of the characters involved: Frank Castle and Rhodey. I get that the Vietnam period is important to the Punisher...but he's just a regular guy so magic or cosmic rays can't explain why he doesn't look like a 60 year old man in the current day and the same goes with Rhodey. I mean, if you wanted them to be older than your average hero I would think the first Gulf War would be more realistic but that's just me.

I like to imagine that Earth-616's timeline, while sharing many events to that of our real Earth, squeezes down issues told throughout four years into one year of Earth-616 time how like https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Gloss...ding_Timescale mentions, so while the Vietnam War ended in 1975 in regards to the real world, the Punisher's physical body ages as if the Vietnam War happened 11 years ago:

Year 01: Nov 1961-Oct 1965
Year 02: Nov 1965-Oct 1969
Year 03: Nov 1969-Oct 1973
Year 04: Nov 1973-Oct 1977
Year 05: Nov 1977-Oct 1981
Year 06: Nov 1981-Oct 1985
Year 07: Nov 1985-Oct 1989
Year 08: Nov 1989-Oct 1993
Year 09: Nov 1993-Oct 1997
Year 10: Nov 1997-Oct 2001
Year 11: Nov 2001-Oct 2005
Year 12: Nov 2005-Oct 2009
Year 13: Nov 2009-Oct 2013
Year 14: Nov 2013-Oct 2017
Year 15: Nov 2017-Oct 2021
Year 16: Nov 2021-Oct 2025
Year 17: Nov 2025-Oct 2029

[Rosebunse]

Couple things really surprised me here. Firstly I thought it was a little strange that they kept Doctor Strange's origin as happening in the late 60's, I guess magic could explain why he isn't ancient in the current period but it seemed a little weird that they didn't just slide him further along the time line to make it easier. Likewise they moved the Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom out of the 50's which is needed...but they only bumped them up to the 70's. Maybe they got stuck in the phantom zone and only escaped recently as other wise it would be strange that they were so young unless you hand wave it away with cosmic rays instead? Again though, why complicate it when you could just slide them forward.

And although I liked consolidating the various military characters not having served in WWII as being in the same war it did create a little bit of an inplausabilty for two of the characters involved: Frank Castle and Rhodey. I get that the Vietnam period is important to the Punisher...but he's just a regular guy so magic or cosmic rays can't explain why he doesn't look like a 60 year old man in the current day and the same goes with Rhodey. I mean, if you wanted them to be older than your average hero I would think the first Gulf War would be more realistic but that's just me.

I thought his age was seemingly because of FrankenCastle? If you notice, the art before FrankenCastle portrayed him as being older. Maybe not in his 60s or 70s, but older. And then after FrankenCastle, the art really dialed down his age. And seemingly after that was when you also had some of the retcons with the Gulf War.

So you can either use it as just a retcon or you can blame a magical stone and Morbius the Living Vampire. Both are fine.

[chamber-music]

Couple things really surprised me here. Firstly I thought it was a little strange that they kept Doctor Strange's origin as happening in the late 60's, I guess magic could explain why he isn't ancient in the current period but it seemed a little weird that they didn't just slide him further along the time line to make it easier. Likewise they moved the Fantastic Four and Doctor Doom out of the 50's which is needed...but they only bumped them up to the 70's. Maybe they got stuck in the phantom zone and only escaped recently as other wise it would be strange that they were so young unless you hand wave it away with cosmic rays instead? Again though, why complicate it when you could just slide them forward.

And although I liked consolidating the various military characters not having served in WWII as being in the same war it did create a little bit of an inplausabilty for two of the characters involved: Frank Castle and Rhodey. I get that the Vietnam period is important to the Punisher...but he's just a regular guy so magic or cosmic rays can't explain why he doesn't look like a 60 year old man in the current day and the same goes with Rhodey. I mean, if you wanted them to be older than your average hero I would think the first Gulf War would be more realistic but that's just me.

The Punisher and Rhodey have been killed and resurrected a couple times. Suppose that could explain why they are younger then they should be.

Magic expanding life spans has been long established the ancient one, Mordo and other magic users are way older then their physical appearance. Strange could be older than he appears.

[Snoop Dogg]

The book doesn't cover in-universe 1900-1960, the book covers in-universe 1900-to-early 2000's because it's only mentioning significant Marvel events, but structuring itself like it's 1900-to-1960 because that's the real-world publication timeline. They didn't make anyone older.

[Loki]

Easier to retcon these characters histories into a single fictional war rather than constantly retconning it into a real life war every couple decades.

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

[thwhtGuardian]

The book doesn't cover in-universe 1900-1960, the book covers in-universe 1900-to-early 2000's because it's only mentioning significant Marvel events, but structuring itself like it's 1900-to-1960 because that's the real-world publication timeline. They didn't make anyone older.

It didn't give off an early 2000's vibe and seeing as how this is only issue two of six I'm guessing we're not supposed to think it was early 2000's either.

[Prof. Warren]

Whatever helps your mangled timeline, Marvel.

"Mangled timeline?" Well, gee, sure. You've got many decades worth of stories that are, according to the sliding timeline, only supposed to have taken place in a fraction of that time. There's no possible way to have it all make perfect sense. No reasonable person would possibly expect it to. When the FF originally took their stolen rocket flight in the midst of the Cold War and now they did it post 9/11, you have to just accept that there's a lot of leeway that must be given.

Trying to put a Marvel timeline together and see it as one continuity should be, above all, fun and the inevitable imperfection of it should be accepted as part of the enjoyment of the endeavor rather than be angrily pointed to.

[thwhtGuardian]

"Mangled timeline?" Well, gee, sure. You've got many decades worth of stories that are, according to the sliding timeline, only supposed to have taken place in a fraction of that time. There's no possible way to have it all make perfect sense. No reasonable person would possibly expect it to. When the FF originally took their stolen rocket flight in the midst of the Cold War and now they did it post 9/11, you have to just accept that there's a lot of leeway that must be given.

Trying to put a Marvel timeline together and see it as one continuity should be, above all, fun and the inevitable imperfection of it should be accepted as part of the enjoyment of the endeavor rather than be angrily pointed to.

Except it doesn't look like their flight was post 9/11 now, they're just starting to group together and we're in the 1970's now. I'm fine with imperfections, but it seems like an odd move.

[kilderkin]

What does this criticism even mean? Like I can't parse what it's suggesting when i look at Rodriguez' work.

That it wasn't to my taste, sorry if that confused you

[Triniking1234]

Why would there be legal trouble for Isiah Bradley if he's based off of a character Marvel already owned?

[Snoop Dogg]

Sick #3 art in the link.

https://www.marvel.com/amp/articles/...arvel-universe

In the second issue, we saw a young Max Eisenhardt freeing himself from the concentration camp and the events that led to the death of Peter Parker’s parents. What kinds of other “origin stories” did you find while putting this series together? What was the most interesting thing you found?

By far my favorite thing so far is finding the perfect space for the Siancong War, which is brand-new, created for this book. I've been contending for years that, just as the origin of the FF "floats" a perpetual twelve to thirteen years behind current day rather than forcing the characters to age in real time as if they really went up in their rocket ship in 1961, we should also create a "floating conflict" to serve a similar purpose for characters whose origins are tied to specific wars. The Punisher's origin, for instance, was originally tied to Vietnam, but the longer it's anchored specifically there, the stranger it gets that Frank Castle isn't seventy years old. Likewise, over the years, we've moved Iron Man's origin from Vietnam to the Persian Gulf War and so forth to keep Tony Stark from being over eighty, and it's time we found it a permanent home. Now and forevermore, those characters, along with veterans like Rhodey, Reed Richards, and Ben Grimm will be said to have fought in the Siancong War, a single conflict that will hang perpetually about fifteen years behind current continuity -- and about which you'll read more someday soon.

[H-E-D]

Why would there be legal trouble for Isiah Bradley if he's based off of a character Marvel already owned?

I think it's just people reaching for an explanation, because I haven't seen anything that would indicate legal trouble to me. It's a derivative character and reprints of Eli material seem fair game.