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  1. #76
    Fantastic Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Force League Unlimited View Post
    I was never a fan of MCU Spidey, and his depiction in Homecoming is diffidently the worst he's been in the MCU, but I have to admit that movie is pretty good the way it was made, but it is still highly flawed. To say it's much better than the two decent movies in the cancelled universe is unfair to those two movies and showers Homecoming with too much praise, that movie is disjointed within the continuity of all of MCU.

    Spider-Man 3 is one of the better Spider-Man movies, it's better than any live action flicks that came after it. I don't include Far From Home here cause I did not watch it.
    I was following you and supporting everything until you mentioned SM3. The movie is indefensible lol. I do agree with Homecoming being disjointed with the continuity. He goes from holding his own in Civil War and stealing the show in the airport ...to being beat on by just about everyone in HomeComing.

  2. #77
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    I do think that Peter's characterization was a bit all over the place when it comes to the MCU. Civil War Spider-Man is keeping up with the best of them. But in Homecoming he's having trouble with thugs (I'm not even talking about Vulture's group, I'm talking about the ATM guys.). Yeah you could say that Peter didn't know how to handle the technology these thugs were given...but the thugs didn't even know how to use the stuff they were given, so it looked kind of bad. We also have how he was willing to jump into action with beings above his pay grade in Infinity War, but then reluctant to do the same thing in Far From Home, having to be forced into action...I'm guessing Mr. Stark was a source of confidence?

  3. #78
    Spectacular Member Spencermalley935's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Force League Unlimited View Post
    I was never a fan of MCU Spidey, and his depiction in Homecoming is diffidently the worst he's been in the MCU, but I have to admit that movie is pretty good the way it was made, but it is still highly flawed. To say it's much better than the two decent movies in the cancelled universe is unfair to those two movies and showers Homecoming with too much praise, that movie is disjointed within the continuity of all of MCU.

    Spider-Man 3 is one of the better Spider-Man movies, it's better than any live action flicks that came after it. I don't include Far From Home here cause I did not watch it.
    I disagree with just about all of this, especially that TASM movies were "decent". TASM 2 is far and away the worst Spider-Man movie we've had yet. Homecoming may no be perfect but it's absolutely superior everything you've listed, especially Spider-Man 3.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    I do think that Peter's characterization was a bit all over the place when it comes to the MCU. Civil War Spider-Man is keeping up with the best of them. But in Homecoming he's having trouble with thugs (I'm not even talking about Vulture's group, I'm talking about the ATM guys.). Yeah you could say that Peter didn't know how to handle the technology these thugs were given...but the thugs didn't even know how to use the stuff they were given, so it looked kind of bad. We also have how he was willing to jump into action with beings above his pay grade in Infinity War, but then reluctant to do the same thing in Far From Home, having to be forced into action...I'm guessing Mr. Stark was a source of confidence?
    He just died and came back to find himself in a war zone for the fate of reality and watched his friend die and he’s not even old enough to drink. Peter then finds that five years have passed on without him and the guy who brought him into the fold isn’t coming back. He wants a break which is perfectly reasonable considering the last couple of months relative to him. He just helped save reality and wants time to grieve a vacation.
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  5. #80
    Spider Sense is Tingling Dangerous's Avatar
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    I also did not like the MCU version of Spider-Man (Iron Boy)....

    Marvel took their most iconic, popular and greatest hero and turned him into a goofy sidekick for Iron Man. It failed To capture the essence of the character, of which I feel even the slightly misguided Marc Webb iteration was a much closer approximation. So why is the Tom Holland version so popular among fans? I think these are several of the factors at play...

    1) Marvel Studios did a such great job adapting the core Avengers in film, that after the success of the first Avengers film the franchise took on it’s own gravitational pull with regards to pulling in more fans- success breeds success and people wanted to be part of the hype/journey. This also means that once something is established and respected, fans have a bias towards something, they become more invested in it and less likely to criticise it.

    2) One trait of human psychology is that a person often wants to elevate the era they are Living in so they can feel they are a part of something good. And leading on from that- many (perhaps most) Peoples opinions in fandom are highly influenced by the majorities consensus on a subject. For example when TASM2 came out in 2014, in it’s first week of release opinions on message boards ranged from positive to mixed. There was no universal opinion that it sucks like there is now. Same story with Thor TDW now being at the bottom of most peoples MCU ranked lists when at the time it got mixed to positive fan reviews. Why is that? Because this is the popular consensus that formed Over time and many people adopt these con-censuses as their opinions. For the record TASM2 sucks and I stated this at release.

    3) A huge portion of the audience does not read comics, doesn’t care about authenticity and just wants to be entertained.

    4) The mainstream media beat us all over the head telling us Tom Holland is the best version of Spider-Man because he finally tells quips (pretty much only in Civil War) and because we had a teen playing a high school student, as if being a high school Student was ever one of the defining traits of Spider-Man....

    Ofcourse some of you comic nerds genuinely like the MCU version, but I think the popularity is inflated because of the above reasons. And if Sony were to give us a more mature character developed Spidey film with Holland, the general consensus on the MCU iteration could be revised down the line.
    Last edited by Dangerous; 08-27-2019 at 12:27 PM.
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  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    I was following you and supporting everything until you mentioned SM3. The movie is indefensible lol. I do agree with Homecoming being disjointed with the continuity. He goes from holding his own in Civil War and stealing the show in the airport ...to being beat on by just about everyone in HomeComing.
    I'm glad that at least Martin from Double Toasted shares my thoughts on Spider-Man 3.
    Power levels and skill being diminished significantly are not my only problems with it that make me think it's disjointed, the 5 years time gap from Avengers and the Chitauri cores exploding all of a sudden when exposed to shock or X-Ray feel out of nowhere, you'd think that would make Tony and Adrian more aware of the dangers of handling and moving those crystals all this time as repeatedly as they do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    I disagree with just about all of this, especially that TASM movies were "decent". TASM 2 is far and away the worst Spider-Man movie we've had yet. Homecoming may no be perfect but it's absolutely superior everything you've listed, especially Spider-Man 3.
    The more I watch these movies and compare notes that dismiss them, the more I feel that criticism to these three movies in particular is unfairly harsh. Calling Peter from TASM movies a removal from the character you see in comics is one valid criticism as far as it goes as an adaption, but as movies they are pretty interesting and better developed than their reputations suggest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerous View Post
    which I feel even the slightly misguided Marc Webb iteration was a much closer approximation
    The more I read about the behind the scenes about these two movies, the more I feel like Marc Webb had little choice in how the script should be like, and was given scripts he did not write nor choose. He gets a lot of blame for how the films turned out to be, but I respect him for answering questions about it with: "They're my movies, I wasn't treated unfairly" and smiles about it
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  7. #82
    Spectacular Member Spencermalley935's Avatar
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    Marvel took their most iconic, popular and greatest hero and turned him into a goofy sidekick for Iron Man. It failed To capture the essence of the character, of which I feel even the slightly misguided Marc Webb iteration was a much closer approximation. So why is the Tom Holland version so popular among fans? I think these are several of the factors at play.
    I'm sorry but I don't for the life of me see how Marc Webb's skateboarding, stuttering, unlikeably smug version of Peter Parker was closer to the essence of the character than Holland is. MCU Spidey may have been helped by Tony Stark but honestly when did he ever act like his "sidekick"? Homecoming had Peter turn down Tony's offer to join the Avengers in favor of being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man and in Far From Home, his character arc is about him accepting that he shouldn't try to be the new Iron Man.

    And if Sony were to give us a more mature character developed Spidey film with Holland, the general consensus on the MCU iteration could be revised down the line.
    With Sony at the helm, I really don't think that's ever going to happen.

    The more I watch these movies and compare notes that dismiss them, the more I feel that criticism to these three movies in particular is unfairly harsh. Calling Peter from TASM movies a removal from the character you see in comics is one valid criticism as far as it goes as an adaption, but as movies they are pretty interesting and better developed than their reputations suggest.
    The first Amazing Spider-Man was basically a souless retread of the first Raimi movie with less inventive film-making, a hard to like main character, a blander villain and a worse executed overall origin story. TASM 2 is just a complete and total mess from top to bottom that felt like it took inspiration from the Schumacher Batman movies. Both films also made it clear Webb could not do a good villain to save his life.

  8. #83
    Fantastic Member RD155's Avatar
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    One thing I will always stand by in regards to the ASM movies are the action sequences and movements. They stand above the pack. Spider-Mans movements and so on were spot and creative. That last sequence vs Electro was epic as hell visually. That was one of my main issues as I’ve stated with HomeComing. It’s very bland action sequences for a character that should be the most visually appealing character on screen.

  9. #84
    Spectacular Member Spiderx3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    One thing I will always stand by in regards to the ASM movies are the action sequences and movements. They stand above the pack. Spider-Mans movements and so on were spot and creative. That last sequence vs Electro was epic as hell visually. That was one of my main issues as I’ve stated with HomeComing. It’s very bland action sequences for a character that should be the most visually appealing character on screen.
    Another aspect the TASM films had over the MCU duology is VFX. Marvel usually has pretty great CGi, so I’m not sure why Spidey in the MCU looks so obviously fake and plastic. Here’s a great video on TASM 2’s VFX work
    https://youtu.be/8_1ZFZieIZU
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  10. #85
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    I was following you and supporting everything until you mentioned SM3. The movie is indefensible lol. I do agree with Homecoming being disjointed with the continuity. He goes from holding his own in Civil War and stealing the show in the airport ...to being beat on by just about everyone in HomeComing.
    I personally think it gets an undeserved rap. May I ask what you find indefensible about it? (Yeah, I know the emo Spidey stuff and all that, but since I seem to be out of the main loop for in terms of opinion, I like comparing notes.)
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  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    skateboarding, stuttering, unlikeably smug version of Peter Parker

    Before having his powers he only used his skateboard for 3-5 seconds in total, it was mostly on his back. About stuttering, Peter did that in two or three scenes? Not all the time.
    And his moments of being smug or a jerk are maybe four-five times in both films together. A lot of the "unlikable" assessment pushed the envelope too far.
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  12. #87
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    Hmm, if Amazing Peter is too unlikable, do you think they pushed too far in the other direction for the MCU and made him too “pure” and kind of clumsy?... heck maybe even the Raimi films had issues with that purity (I’ll have to watch the films again), though Raimi Peter DID let his uncle’s murderer(s partner) escape out of malice rather than indifference so I guess that can be counted. Classic Peter was a good guy, but he did have his rather petty moments and did find ways to inconvenience people who got on his nerves.

  13. #88
    Fantastic Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I personally think it gets an undeserved rap. May I ask what you find indefensible about it? (Yeah, I know the emo Spidey stuff and all that, but since I seem to be out of the main loop for in terms of opinion, I like comparing notes.)
    This is just me personally...Iím not basing this off of the general publicís feelings or other message boards. Iíll even leave out the emo stuff. You covered that already lol and thatís been bashed on enough. What I disliked was...


    - Multiple villains. Never a fan of this in movies. There was absolutely no reason to have Venom In there making his big screen debut for about 10 mins. I also hated his portrayal. The botch job that Venom suffered was probably my biggest complaint. The movie just tried way too hard to cram so much in. I get that Raimi was forced into quite a bit of it but it is what it is...

    - The cast looked exhausted by this movie. It seemed as if some of them had one foot out of the door at this point. Tobey didnít have that same punch from SM1 and 2 ...and Kirsten dunst has overstayed her welcome.

    - Kirsten dunst. Iíve had a problem with her since the start of the series but it was never more front and center then in this movie. She was annoying, lifeless and stale. Like I mentioned before, by this point she had pretty much overstayed her welcome.

    - The ending....

    Itís been so long since Iíve seen the movie so Iím really having a hard time remembering what else I disliked.

    As a reference point I loved SM1 and 2. Liked the ASM movies though not as much. Felt homecoming was average at best and loved FFH. Like I mentioned before SM3 stands far down on the list under the rest. From start to finish I was just never invested in that movie.

  14. #89
    Fantastic Member RD155's Avatar
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    Andrew Garfield wasn’t the best Peter Parker but his in suit Spider-Man persona was extremely good to me. He had that off the wall, energetic, youthful persona with the quips and also has this confident almost borderline arrogance/cockiness that 616 Spider-Man at times tip toes the line on.

    Just rewatched that Electro/Spider-Man final fight. Garfield just seemed natural with the persona. Talking to himself during the fight. The “You ready to give up?” Line while Electro is choking him is just so Spidey. I feel Garfield gets a bad rap and man I loved the work he did as Spider-Man.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    I'm sorry but I don't for the life of me see how Marc Webb's skateboarding, stuttering, unlikeably smug version of Peter Parker was closer to the essence of the character than Holland is. MCU Spidey may have been helped by Tony Stark but honestly when did he ever act like his "sidekick"? Homecoming had Peter turn down Tony's offer to join the Avengers in favor of being a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man and in Far From Home, his character arc is about him accepting that he shouldn't try to be the new Iron Man.
    MCU Spider-Man felt more like Iron Man janitor, then an actual hero as he was constantly cleaning up messes that were caused by Tony Stark on a way.

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