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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Hmm, if Amazing Peter is too unlikable, do you think they pushed too far in the other direction for the MCU and made him too “pure” and kind of clumsy?... heck maybe even the Raimi films had issues with that purity (I’ll have to watch the films again), though Raimi Peter DID let his uncle’s murderer(s partner) escape out of malice rather than indifference so I guess that can be counted. Classic Peter was a good guy, but he did have his rather petty moments and did find ways to inconvenience people who got on his nerves.
    True. There have also been times where he's gotten very, very angry and beat his foes within an inch of their lives (as Kingpin can attest). He's also given very scathing speeches about just how much they suck directed to people he doesn't like, which I have a hard time seeing MCU Spidey doing because he's just too nice to a fault. It was something I took issue with from Day 1, as Spidey's definitely nice, but he has his angry moments.

  2. #107
    Spider Sense is Tingling Dangerous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    Considering Garfield's Peter Parker cared more about his dead, boring parents than he did about Uncle Ben,Became Spider-Man for revenge rather than responsibility,
    Atleast Garfield had a visible connection to Ben and him becoming Spidey was still a direct result of Ben's death just like in the 616, even if it was born out of a different drive. In the MCU, for all we know Ben may have never existed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    strung Gwen along throughout the second movie coming off as incredibly indecisive and immature, I'd argue the exact opposite.
    It could be argued Peter was indecisive and immature in 616 by chickening out from telling Gwen his true identity through the duration of their relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    At least, Holland's Peter Parker actually created his own web fluid instead of stealing it from Oscorp.
    That's the ONLY thing he created himself.... Vs Garfield Spidey who also created his own webshooters, his own costumes (!) and worked autonomously and did not follow another heroes orders. That's a lot closer in spirit to the homespun loner of the early comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    So Tony asks things of Peter and he agrees to do them, That doesn't make Peter his sidekick. Remember, Peter is still a teenager starting out and Tony has been doing this longer than he has so of course Peter would follow his lead.
    Peter is clearly portrayed as Stark's subordinate throughout the four films they shared together. It was a a mentor / student relationship. Now,- you might not mind this... or think it fits with the MCU's placement of Peter being a teen growing up in a world of pre-established adult superheroes, but this is NOT who Spider-Man was in the 1960's comics...

    Whilst he was also initially a teen hero growing up in a world of pre-established heroes, he did not revere any of them to the point where he would act as their subordinate and follow their orders over a long period. Instead Spidey was, in typical teenager fashion- more headstrong, autonomous and occasionally arrogant. Having Spidey be Stark's lapdog not only made the portrayal feel less like Spider-Man, but also just generally made him seem like much more of a wuss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    Yeah, I do say because that's the entire point of FFH.
    What is the point of FFH? Spidey becoming autonomous and stepping out of Stark's shadow? This is what Homecoming should have been about. If it takes five films for Spidey to even start acting like Spidey that is a failure of storytelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    In the oh-so perfect PS4 video game,
    Dunno if you're being sarcastic there or not. It was a great game 9/10 for me... It took a lot of cues from Arkham, but with the expert implementation of Spidey's unique city traversal & fighting style, the AAA polish and great character work.. It's the best superhero game to date for me. Two things I really didn't like though,- was the hijacking of Mary Jane with a love interest entirely of their own design who shares none of the character /personality/visual presentation of MJW (Clearly they don't like the comicbook character) ....And secondly how Spidey allowed himself to be continually disrespected by Silver Sable and then team up with her and act like her lackey. During their second encounter when she punched him and he did nothing I kinda died a bit inside- he should have webbed her up in an instant... And then when you have a boss fight against her and the devs don't even let you incapacitate her- again, Lame.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    Peter made a new suit using technology from Doctor Octopus's company so I guess by that logic, He's his sidekick in that game.
    Except in that game Spider-Man did not follow Doc Ock's orders, Peter just worked for Otto in his civilian identity.
    So no, that's not the same logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    Sony also made three of the absolute worst Spidey movies (SM3, Both TASM's) and Venom. Say what you will about the MCU but they are way above any of those in terms of quality.
    Well, this all comes down to personal taste. The MCU is pretty hit or miss for me... They have a handful of great films- Avengers, Cap Trilogy, IM1 & GoTG1.... And then the majority of the rest is very forgettable.

    SM3 & TASM1 had their problems but ATLEAST they had their own creative identity and an actual soul. For me the MCU's worst efforts just feel like a disposable commercial product and nothing more... Utterly soulless, cookie cutter, contrived dross such as Ant-Man and the Wasp and Captain Marvel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    I'm sorry but I have seen nothing of Sony that makes me believe they won't do exactly as they did in their previous two Spider-Man franchises...
    Well, Sony has had three 'Spider-Man [film] Franchises' - Raimi, TASM & Spider-Verse... And out of those three, two have been critically acclaimed. So I'm not quite sure what you mean here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    and the fact that they're most likely going to try and incorporate him into their terrible attempt at a shared universe (with Venom and Morbius) fills me with dread.
    Their 'attempt' at a shared universe has yet to be seen. We've only had one Venom film, so the merits of it as a 'shared' universe can't be gauged until they start crossing characters over. Just as how Iron Man 2 was the first actual example of the MCU as a shared universe as it was the first to feature multiple heroes such as Nick Fury, Black Widow & War Machine along side IM in the same film.
    Last edited by Dangerous; 09-02-2019 at 08:57 AM.
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  3. #108
    Spectacular Member Spencermalley935's Avatar
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    Atleast Garfield had a visible connection to Ben and him becoming Spidey was still a direct result of Ben's death just like in the 616, even if it was born out of a different drive. In the MCU, for all we know Ben may have never existed.
    Peter's entire speech to Tony when they meet in Civil War is very clear proof that Uncle Ben existed even if Peter isn't name-dropping him every five seconds. Garfield didn't even really learn the "great power, great responsibility" lesson until Captain Stacy chewed him out in the first ASM movie.

    It could be argued Peter was indecisive and immature in 616 by chickening out from telling Gwen his true identity through the duration of their relationship.
    There's a world of difference between not telling Gwen his secret vs breaking up with her, then hanging around her, getting back together and repeating the cycle. Peter's also a creepy stalker in TASM 2. Why are we supposed to like this guy again?

    Now,- you might not mind this... or think it fits with the MCU's placement of Peter being a teen growing up in a world of pre-established adult superheroes, but this is NOT who Spider-Man was in the 1960's comics...
    In the 1960's comics, Spider-Man also wasn't a loner who chose not to hang out with people and who only got bullied when he tried to keep other kids from getting bullied like in TASM. Honestly, I'd say the Iron Man stuff is definitely the lesser of two evils between the two. I honestly for the life of me can't remember any instance of Peter actually acting like "Tony's Lapdog" in Civil War and he frequently disobeyed Tony's orders in Homecoming to stay out of the business with Vulture. Infinity War is comparatively the closest Peter's come to acting like Tony's sidekick but even so, He doesn't actually issue any orders outside of "stop the sci-fi references"

    What is the point of FFH? Spidey becoming autonomous and stepping out of Stark's shadow? This is what Homecoming should have been about. If it takes five films for Spidey to even start acting like Spidey that is a failure of storytelling.
    Homecoming was about Peter learning to not get too big for his britches after having been introduced to a larger universe outside of what he's used too and to stick close to the ground. The fact that he refuses Tony's offer to become an Avenger really sells that for me. I'm sorry but I really don't see how the involvement of Tony Stark prevent's Spidey from acting like Spidey. He very clearly acts like Spidey in pretty much every MCU movie he appears in.

    Except in that game Spider-Man did not follow Doc Ock's orders, Peter just worked for Otto in his civilian identity.
    He still very clearly looked up to Otto and saw him as a surrogate father figure so I don't think it's as far off a comparison as you might think.

    SM3 & TASM1 had their problems but ATLEAST they had their own creative identity and an actual soul.
    I don't agree with the TASM having identity or a soul. It was as standard a superhero movie as you could possibly get, just an edgier retread of the original Raimi movie with a worse villain, less inventive film making and a needlessly convoluted origin story. SM3 on top of just being a mess, felt more like an obligation with none of the passion or drive that the first two had.

    Well, Sony has had three 'Spider-Man [film] Franchises' - Raimi, TASM & Spider-Verse... And out of those three, two have been critically acclaimed. So I'm not quite sure what you mean here.
    The MCU movies were critically acclaimed too. What I mean is that Sony screwed up both of their live-action franchises in the end and Spider-Verse, I really consider a fluke. Given Sony's track record, I'm really not comfortable with them solely owning Spider-Man's film rights.

  4. #109
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Yeah, if there's people saying Ock in PS4 is incomparable with Stark in "Homecoming", that's false. Peter literally says "I worshipped you," "You were like a father to me," and "You were everything I wanted to be." It's pretty clear that type of role was in PS4, even more so than the MCU movies. The difference of course being that Stark is more absentee than most (as well as Peter being absent for five years lol) so we never got that development. Probably done that way to appease fans, despite not appeasing them at the same time.

    Comic fans are funny people. :P
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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencermalley935 View Post
    The MCU movies were critically acclaimed too. What I mean is that Sony screwed up both of their live-action franchises in the end and Spider-Verse, I really consider a fluke. Given Sony's track record, I'm really not comfortable with them solely owning Spider-Man's film rights.
    Same here. And while I may have liked Venom, it sure as hell wasn't a well-made film.

  6. #111
    Spider Sense is Tingling Dangerous's Avatar
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    For anyone who’s not seen it, or who is a fan of MCU Spidey, this short video by HiTop Films perfectly encapsulates my feelings as to why MCU Spidey was utter crap- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT-NYSE8gFs
    (Except for Civil War, he was great in that)
    MY POWERS HAVE RETURNED TO ME!! I HAVEN'T LOST THEM!! I'M STILL SPIDER-MAN!

  7. #112
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerous View Post
    For anyone who’s not seen it, or who is a fan of MCU Spidey, this short video by HiTop Films perfectly encapsulates my feelings as to why MCU Spidey was utter crap- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT-NYSE8gFs
    (Except for Civil War, he was great in that)
    My ultimate question is this: why do so many fans feel the need to constantly berate and try to "convince" other fans that MCU Spidey is not Spidey? Does it really matter that much? Is there this inherent need?
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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    My ultimate question is this: why do so many fans feel the need to constantly berate and try to "convince" other fans that MCU Spidey is not Spidey? Does it really matter that much? Is there this inherent need?
    Well, you could then ask is there any need for a Spider-Man message board? But seriously, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind just have my view understood. It seems half the board shares my opinion so that’s good enough for me. Might be cool if someone made a poll on the subject.
    MY POWERS HAVE RETURNED TO ME!! I HAVEN'T LOST THEM!! I'M STILL SPIDER-MAN!

  9. #114
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerous View Post
    Well, you could then ask is there any need for a Spider-Man message board? But seriously, I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind just have my view understood. It seems half the board shares my opinion so that’s good enough for me. Might be cool if someone made a poll on the subject.
    I'm not just talking about the boards: there's a large percentage of Spider-fans who despise the MCU, and this group has been actively, actively, seeking to convince other people that this isn't the "correct" interpretation: not unlike what happened with the ASM movies not too long ago. They popup on Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, these boards, other boards: they're everywhere. It's kind of troubling me, honestly, that a group would go out of their way to actively try to change others' opinions like it's some kind of gospel you know? Not you specifically, but just something I've been thinking about.
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  10. #115
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerous View Post
    For anyone who’s not seen it, or who is a fan of MCU Spidey, this short video by HiTop Films perfectly encapsulates my feelings as to why MCU Spidey was utter crap- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT-NYSE8gFs
    (Except for Civil War, he was great in that)
    How was he great in civil war? there is nothing to judge that since he had no story arc in the film but this is MCU. all it takes is for spiderman to speak to captain america or black widow and he is the best spiderman ever because he is now officially part of a crossover universe.

  11. #116
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    The best part of Spidey in Civil War was really a Captain America moment. Tony going to Queens and recruiting a 15-year old kid to help him stop and arrest a group of adult superheroes was cringy at best.
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  12. #117
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    My ultimate question is this: why do so many fans feel the need to constantly berate and try to "convince" other fans that MCU Spidey is not Spidey? Does it really matter that much? Is there this inherent need?
    It’s a basic cross between a pack mentality that is stirred into a sense of vindication towards disliking something by recent events and a classic case of ‘stop liking this thing that I don’t like!’. Personally for me, you’re free to have your opinion but don’t try to shove it down my throat in an attempt to change mine as if it’s wrong or mess with my enjoyment. Respect my difference in opinion and I’ll respect yours so to speak.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    The best part of Spidey in Civil War was really a Captain America moment. Tony going to Queens and recruiting a 15-year old kid to help him stop and arrest a group of adult superheroes was cringy at best.
    Honestly, it’s more impressive on Spider-Man’s part if you ask me. Here’s a kid who had been essentially a rookie holding his own against experienced Avengers. Cap basically beat him because he’s a strategic thinker. That’s nothing short of impressive. Besides, not the first time a teenager has become involved in bigger things. In the comics Ultimate Jessica Drew was recruited into SHIELD and the Ultimates at physically 16 and Miles was involved in Divided We Fall at only 13.

  13. #118
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Honestly, it’s more impressive on Spider-Man’s part if you ask me. Here’s a kid who had been essentially a rookie holding his own against experienced Avengers. Cap basically beat him because he’s a strategic thinker. That’s nothing short of impressive. Besides, not the first time a teenager has become involved in bigger things. In the comics Ultimate Jessica Drew was recruited into SHIELD and the Ultimates at physically 16 and Miles was involved in Divided We Fall at only 13.
    Its really the recruiting aspect I find distasteful. Had Spider-Man gotten involved just because he was there anyhow and saw superheroes fighting, that would have been an iconic Spider-Man thing to do, I think. As it was, it felt forced and a bit cringy.
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  14. #119

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    I wasn't a big fan, either. Tom was alright, but I prefer an older, more experienced Spider-Man.

    I also didn't care for his supporting cast, which felt more like Miles's than Peter's.

    The best part of the films, for me, was the villains. Especially Mysterio.

    I'm not a fan of the direction the MCU is going in right now, so this may end up being a blessing in disguise when all is said and done.
    Last edited by Scarlet Spider-Man; 09-09-2019 at 11:12 AM.

  15. #120
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I like Tom's performance...I do not like all the dang StarkTech. This is Peter Parker we are talking about. One of the smartest guys in 616. He developed web fluid, web shooters, and spider tracers when he was in high school. Put him in the MCU and it seems like he can't deal with anything without all the StarkTech. To me Pete is body stocking and his personal built gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by RD155 View Post
    There was just such an over reliance on Stark every time Peter was on screen.

    I feel like we watched completely different films.
    1) Peter still developed web fluid, shooters, and the aperture lenses on his mask in the MCU
    2) He beat Vulture at the end of Homecoming in his old costume without the use of StarkTech
    3) He beats Mysterio in Far From Home relying on nothing but his Spider-Sense

    I don't know where this whole "he relies too much on Iron Man" junk comes from, but it's demonstrably false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haquim View Post
    You are not alone. I for one detest the idea that they presented Peter Parker as some sort of Iron Man fanboy.
    Right?? It's not like Peter was a Fantastic Four fanboy in the comics
    no, wait

    Well he wasn't a Captain America fanboy, at least
    oh

    Well it's not like he had Iron Man in a mentor role during Civil War
    ...
    this is awkward
    Last edited by Zeitgeist; 09-15-2019 at 02:44 AM.
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