For you, is Dick Grayson better as a Batman-centric or DCU-centric character?

[Bat-Meal]

Dick's the only character who was successful enough at one point to almost escape from orbit. No one else has come close but even Dick has been sucked back in as a subservient character.

True, he has become somewhat stagnant from being held back. The same is true for other characters in the Batfamily as well.

[MajorHoy]

NOTE: This thread was originally started back on 08-21-2019.

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With 89 votes at present,

* The larger DCU = 65 votes
* Batman's world = 24 votes

[WonderNight]

Nightwing has maxed out as a bat character, there no forward growth. Dick should and will always be a bat character. But he should not be a bat centric character! Nightwing should be his own dcu solo character first. Let see him work to build his own legend as Nightwing in the dcu!

Bat centric nightwing is just more bat sidekick Nightwing, dickbabs again, big bat bro and no growth.

I what to follow read about the legend of Nightwing!!! One of the dc universe's greatest heroes, not the adventures of Batman's right hand man.

[Restingvoice]

At the moment he's best on his own. In Bat fam he's a supporting cast, not the lead, in Titans, he's a lead but the Titans setup doesn't seem to be unable to move forward beyond the usual school - Deathstroke - Trigon setting. Red X is new, but since it's not Dick, just retcon past story, it's not adding much for him.

[Lightning Rider]

I actually like him best in Bludhaven, pretty much on his own, with Batfamily characters visiting. I went with batcentric because that's closer to the kind of stories I like him in.

[WonderNight]

I actually like him best in Bludhaven, pretty much on his own, with Batfamily characters visiting. I went with batcentric because that's closer to the kind of stories I like him in.

But doesn't dick already get those kind of stories when he's visiting gotham and the batfam? Why does his solo adventures need to be the same as his gotham and batfam adventures. Why not have nightwing solo stories be more titans/dcu and his stories in gotham with the batfam in the bat books can be more bat centric!

[MajorHoy]

But doesn't dick already get those kind of stories when he's visiting gotham and the batfam? Why does his solo adventures need to be the same as his gotham and batfam adventures. Why not have nightwing solo stories be more titans/dcu and his stories in gotham with the batfam in the bat books can be more bat centric!

I like Dick in Batman-like stories.

I don't want him and his stories totally divorced from that feeling. I feel he's lost in the (formerly Teen) Titans these days. Nightwing needs to deal with crime in the city, not be globe-hopping or off into space.

[mib86]

Both of them? seriously why limit him?He is a character who belong to the Batman world,and the heart of the batfamily, but at the same time he is the first sidekick, he worked with the justice League more than anyone in his generation and he leaded the titans...
You could argue Dick as character is even more versatile than bruce (nowday is very hard writing not-dark or funny Batman stories like the ones of the Silver Age, with Dick all feels more natural ).

That's why he should be a protagonist in at least two books (a Titans one and a Batfamily one) and even more...

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Both of them? seriously why limit him?He is a character who belong to the Batman world,and the heart of the batfamily, but at the same time he is the first sidekick, he worked with the justice League more than anyone in his generation and he leaded the titans...
You could argue Dick as character is even more versatile than bruce (nowday is very hard writing not-dark or funny Batman stories like the ones of the Silver Age, with Dick all feels more natural ).

That's why he should be a protagonist in at least two books (a Titans one and a Batfamily one) and even more...

I somewhat agree with you. But for the past what, since he had his solo he has been mainly a batfam side character despite having his own solo. Titans rarely stays around and he has really no iconic events/cross overs where he is the center. So people are saying that DC keeps putting out there that Dick is the heart of the universe and he brings everyone together but there have been zero things happening to him to make it true. I think it’s just DC’s way of trying not to default on Superman or Batman because they are the true hearts of DC.


So lots of people want Dick in another editorial and out the batfam for that reason. Because he has been there for so long that it’s getting stale. I give Dick another 5 to 10 years before getting to another editorial. If DC doesn’t get the ax from Discovery first.

[Lightning Rider]

But doesn't dick already get those kind of stories when he's visiting gotham and the batfam? Why does his solo adventures need to be the same as his gotham and batfam adventures. Why not have nightwing solo stories be more titans/dcu and his stories in gotham with the batfam in the bat books can be more bat centric!

I just think his skillset lends itself to gothic street-level adventures. I also think it's more beneficial to have the character be the centerpiece of his own stories in his own unique setting. The first few arcs of Rebirth saw him dealing with his own cast of characters, with only occasional appearances from Damian etc. Most of the Titans material from the last decade or so (from memory) sees him used as the kind of anchor, the leader who has it together, who therefore doesn't really get most of the character work.

That doesn't mean he can't spend time with others in the DCU. But to me a good Nightwing story has him doing specifically Nightwingish stuff in a specifically Nightwingish setting.

[Aahz]

In Bat fam he's a supporting cast, not the lead,

I don't think that this has to be the case. I mean if we look back at Chuck Dixon's Run, we had Batfamily cross overs between that did not include Batman (Hunt for Oracle for example), and Tylor seems to do something similar with having other batfamily members appear as guest on his book.
Especially in the first arc he was imo going for a similar Nightwing/Robin/Oracle dynamic, as Dixon established back than.

The thing also where are you going to put him when he is outside of the Bat fam?

Titans: that Franichise hasn't really had a good is kind of stuck in redoing storlines from the NTT era, and hasn't really had a run with long lasting success in 2-3 decades at his point. Would be great if they, if they would get this franchise back on track, but sofar it doesn't look like they are able to.

Justice League: Has allready Batman on the team.

A new team: DC has not been exactly successfull with new teams, their books either don't last, or they keep switching out most of the roaster peridically.

Something new somewhere else, with new villains and new supporting characters. To building up something like that you need a creative team with a longtime commitment to the book. In a time where DC can't even keep their main Batman writer on a book for more than 2 years, that's hard to find.

[WonderNight]

I just think his skillset lends itself to gothic street-level adventures. I also think it's more beneficial to have the character be the centerpiece of his own stories in his own unique setting. The first few arcs of Rebirth saw him dealing with his own cast of characters, with only occasional appearances from Damian etc. Most of the Titans material from the last decade or so (from memory) sees him used as the kind of anchor, the leader who has it together, who therefore doesn't really get most of the character work.

That doesn't mean he can't spend time with others in the DCU. But to me a good Nightwing story has him doing specifically Nightwingish stuff in a specifically Nightwingish setting.

but you already have that style with him in gotham, why does his solo have to be the same? Nightwing can be in gotham with the family in the other many other batboks, team ups, guest and events. Why does his solo have to be a generic batbook? We have over a dozen other bats already doing all that! Let him be his own thing, have the nightwing solo be dick on globetrotting missions with regular team ups! When he's in gotham with the family then he can do generic bat stuff.

He's still batfam, but he's his own keep of bat. The globe/social bat!

[Restingvoice]

I don't think that this has to be the case. I mean if we look back at Chuck Dixon's Run, we had Batfamily cross overs between that did not include Batman (Hunt for Oracle for example), and Tylor seems to do something similar with having other batfamily members appear as guest on his book.
Especially in the first arc he was imo going for a similar Nightwing/Robin/Oracle dynamic, as Dixon established back than.

The thing also where are you going to put him when he is outside of the Bat fam?

Titans: that Franichise hasn't really had a good is kind of stuck in redoing storlines from the NTT era, and hasn't really had a run with long lasting success in 2-3 decades at his point. Would be great if they, if they would get this franchise back on track, but sofar it doesn't look like they are able to.

Justice League: Has allready Batman on the team.

A new team: DC has not been exactly successfull with new teams, their books either don't last, or they keep switching out most of the roaster peridically.

Something new somewhere else, with new villains and new supporting characters. To building up something like that you need a creative team with a longtime commitment to the book. In a time where DC can't even keep their main Batman writer on a book for more than 2 years, that's hard to find.

I was actually thinking simply his solo. His current solo. The Bat fam and Titans show up there because he's still connected to them, but he's still the main character, it's in service of his story, and the sales are high.

So keep doing what they're doing now, but make Bludhaven halfway south of New Jersey for good measure, add (or bring back) more supporting cast, a sidekick or two, so if he leaves for a crossover, there's filler heroe... or bring back the Justice League teleporter.

[Lightning Rider]

but you already have that style with him in gotham, why does his solo have to be the same? Nightwing can be in gotham with the family in the other many other batboks, team ups, guest and events. Why does his solo have to be a generic batbook? We have over a dozen other bats already doing all that! Let him be his own thing, have the nightwing solo be dick on globetrotting missions with regular team ups! When he's in gotham with the family then he can do generic bat stuff.

He's still batfam, but he's his own keep of bat. The globe/social bat!

I wouldn't mind him globetrotting a bit, but what hero in their own title spends most of it leaning on other characters and settings most of the time?

I'd also argue that batfam stories are rarely introspective mysteries with Dick as the focus, so I don't think we really do get that.

[Fridays]

Dick Grayson is my least favourite Robin, he however belongs more in the Batman world than the DCU.