The Problems with the Crossover Universe Phenomenon

[80sbaby]

I'll even help you out:

Posts that don't agree with you: 2, 5, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20, 21, 22

Note: I stopped at post 23 since that's where the topic was when we began this discussion. If I had continued, then both posts 24 and 25 also don't agree with you.

Now, post which ones agree with you.

[XPac]

I was talking of fans and a solid franchise that has already succeeded being self contained. maybe sony and fox making crossovers is why many marvel or franchise fans were never into studio loyalty. even WB does not get a pass from harry potter fans.




It's not even, only 16% are favoring crossovers. although I would easily place a bet who are the people that voted for crossovers. so its almost kind of irrelevant to me since they already said the best part about x-men is the humor or have admitted they never read the x-men comics.


Its kind of nice that the votes highly favoring crossovers started to only go up when I posted the link here. so I can place a good bet on the voters. Read some of the post though, what people are actually saying, its not just the votes.

Given comic books (or marvel comic books at least) exist in a shared universe, I'd frankly think most X-Men and Spider-Man fans are used to it. Heck, Spider-Man probably crosses over with other franchises more than any marvel character in history, with Wolverine of the X-Men a close second.

[Theleviathan]

*Sigh* I DID. That's how I was able to count the posts.

Let's try this: How many posts do you see that agree with your point of view? They are numbered so you can list them.

I give you credit for trying. I don't know what else has to be done for this poster's style to be labeled trolling. His responses to you are not ok. Inundating dozens of threads with this kind of trolling is really off-putting for discussion.

[80sbaby]

I guess blatant dishonesty isn't considered "trolling?"

But anyways, I figured it would be a waste of my time but I still wanted to point out his/her fallacies for those watching.

[Powerboy]

In my opinion, Marvel was always built around a shared universe, at least when it started publishing under the Marvel name. When DC started, it was never intended that each character existed in the same universe. So that aspect, the MCU coming across like everyone actually exists in the same reality, has always been true of Marvel. It has it's good points and its bad points.

[Beaddle]

I give you credit for trying. I don't know what else has to be done for this poster's style to be labeled trolling. His responses to you are not ok. Inundating dozens of threads with this kind of trolling is really off-putting for discussion.

I don't think it counts as trolling if you have giving many logical reasons of MCU shortcomings compared to other comic book movies. See my X2/Black Panther commentary. For me I would almost think reading a post that says the best part about xmen is the comedy would be more of a troll post since x-men is highly famous for their serious adult tone that couldn't even be removed from the cartoons.

I'll even help you out:

Posts that don't agree with you: 2, 5, 12, 13, 14, 15, 20, 21, 22

Note: I stopped at post 23 since that's where the topic was when we began this discussion. If I had continued, then both posts 24 and 25 also don't agree with you.

Now, post which ones agree with you.

I counted 16 that range from 3-1. Which is what I mostly agree with since I voted for number 2. Some of the other posts were not directly discussing the question. The average ranges from 2-3, meaning many don't think X-Men should get heavily dependent. Most want to acknowledged xmen is part of a larger universe but they still want xmen to stand alone and not be dependent on the crossover concept.

I am further guessing any mcu theory that reveals tony stark created mutants or magneto has no ties to world war 2 or storm getting set up as black panther's love interest before an xmen leader would not be appreciated.

The reaction there is the same on the Spiderman forum. Most don't appreciate Spiderman-Iron Boy any more than Stark-Xmen-Wakanda movies concept.

[WebLurker]

Interesting thread on the x-forums, Looks like more people are becoming bored with crossovers especially people that seem to like either spiderman or xmen.

https://community.cbr.com/showthread...37#post4549837

I am going to follow this thread, the votes are already saying it all. a large significant amount of spiderman and xmen fans never gave a cent about crossover universes. it has never been a main toast of the series.

CBR forums isn't a "large significant amount" of anything, much less an accurate demographic of what viewers want in the franchise's future. Even if most of the people on the poll did agree with you, that's not counting the viewers and fans who missed the poll or don't even belong to this forum (you know, the rest of the people that's made the MCU Spidey movies big deals in the blockbuster arena).

(Also funny you bring up X-Men fans on this forum; my experience on the X-pages is that there are quite a few people who hated the Fox series for butchering the source material and are happy that Marvel Studios is now in change of the franchise's future, with the perception that they'll do it right.)

[Beaddle]

CBR forums isn't a "large significant amount" of anything, much less an accurate demographic of what viewers want in the franchise's future. Even if most of the people on the poll did agree with you, that's not counting the viewers and fans who missed the poll or don't even belong to this forum (you know, the rest of the people that's made the MCU Spidey movies big deals in the blockbuster arena).

The sweet concept of a silent majority or a split reality or where truth becomes stranger than fiction. Look no further than the sony/disney failed deal.

(Also funny you bring up X-Men fans on this forum; my experience on the X-pages is that there are quite a few people who hated the Fox series for butchering the source material and are happy that Marvel Studios is now in change of the franchise's future, with the perception that they'll do it right.)

Some people on the xmen forums are bigger mcu fans than xmen fans which is fine but it means so little when people actually start to talk about the xmen universe.

I too have said fox butchered some aspect of xmen, many if you ask me. WB has butchered batman, Sony has done the same with Spiderman. Remember it is only in the MCU kingdom that no butchering take places (roll eyes), you still defend and love GOTG even though Disney butchered those movies compared to the comics. Despite fox Butchering, they would still have been a better option than the disney mcu crossover universe. I see it more as the lesser of two evils.

Fox could at least make xmen movies are not worry about overstepping boundaries, Disney can't even get marvel cartoons right and cant even operate outside of their disney movie crossover universe that X-men would be weaker with just like Spiderman.


In an alternate reality.The James Mangold Ford vs Ferrari movie was the xmen movie we had this year (X23) not dark Phoenix. Geez, wonder if Disney would have liked that idea for X23 as she is younger than Peter Parker that they turned into Peppa Pig,

[80sbaby]

I counted 16 that range from 3-1. Which is what I mostly agree with since I voted for number 2. Some of the other posts were not directly discussing the question. The average ranges from 2-3, meaning many don't think X-Men should get heavily dependent. Most want to acknowledged xmen is part of a larger universe but they still want xmen to stand alone and not be dependent on the crossover concept.

Dude, #3 is NOT in agreement with you. It's listed as "Moderate," whereas #2 is listed as "Minimal." Anything #3 or higher isn't agreeing with your premise. For further clarification, here's what the OP says:

2. Minimal - Occasional elements pop up, such as S.H.I.E.L.D., and you might see an appearance from a general MU hero or villain in a fairly prominent fashion, but still largely reliant on the X-Universe.

3. Moderate - The X-Men stand on their own, but also have a clear relation to the rest of Marvel. You might see them team up with the Avengers or Fantastic Four, or have another hero like Spider-Man be a guest star, and mutants show up in the wider universe. They take part in company-wide crossovers with their own stake in the event.


Notice it says "CLEAR RELATION," meaning the connection is obvious and it specifically says there would be team-ups and that they are in company-wide crossovers. That's EXACTLY how things are in the MCU now. Each franchise is independent but also clearly a part of the world with cross-overs and big events. So, again, you're wrong. Most in that topic do not agree with you.

[CliffHanger2]

I don't think it counts as trolling if you have giving many logical reasons of MCU shortcomings compared to other comic book movies. See my X2/Black Panther commentary. For me I would almost think reading a post that says the best part about xmen is the comedy would be more of a troll post since x-men is highly famous for their serious adult tone that couldn't even be removed from the cartoons.
.

I guess ppl are counting it as trolling because what's missing from your posts are "Many logical reasons" or maybe even one.

[Theleviathan]

I guess ppl are counting it as trolling because what's missing from your posts are "Many logical reasons" or maybe even one.

Or maybe just an end to the posts that tell others what they think. I was told I had the wrong opinion about Legion despite this poster openly admitting they haven't seen 2 of the 3 seasons.

It's trolling when the conversation is always one direction with no real acknowledgment of other posters.

[CliffHanger2]

Or maybe just an end to the posts that tell others what they think. I was told I had the wrong opinion about Legion despite this poster openly admitting they haven't seen 2 of the 3 seasons.

It's trolling when the conversation is always one direction with no real acknowledgment of other posters.

Yeah how can you have an informed opinion about a show you've missed 2 out of 3 seasons of?lol

[WebLurker]

The sweet concept of a silent majority or a split reality or where truth becomes stranger than fiction.

No, it's just basic logic and understanding of how accurate polling works. The forum poll is just a "for fun" thing. That is all.

Look no further than the sony/disney failed deal.

That's neither here nor there; the two companies couldn't come to an agreement and split. Some people have spoken against this, others have spoken in favor, but neither are exactly going to change anything. (I also find it funny that you keep invoking Sony as being the ones who know best with Spidey, when, according to them, they wanted to keep the MCU deal going, the exact opposite of what you want.)

Some people on the xmen forums are bigger mcu fans than xmen fans which is fine but it means so little when people actually start to talk about the xmen universe.

"No true Scotsman" is not a good gatekeeping tactic.

I too have said fox butchered some aspect of xmen, many if you ask me. WB has butchered batman, Sony has done the same with Spiderman. Remember it is only in the MCU kingdom that no butchering take places (roll eyes)....

You have a very self-serving memory. Remember how people responded to IM2 and Thor 2? The whole "MCU has weak villains" thing? The Mandarin controversy?

...you still defend and love GOTG even though Disney butchered those movies compared to the comics.

Because the movies were good in and of themselves (look up my old posts if you want a refresher on the reasons why some of us think so). Look, I never read those comics, so I come to the movie from a very different place then you do. What makes that position invalid, considering that the movies are designed so that reading the comics isn't needed to enjoy them?

Despite fox Butchering, they would still have been a better option than the disney mcu crossover universe. I see it more as the lesser of two evils.

Dunno, they were also the people behind the F4 movies.

Fox could at least make xmen movies are not worry about overstepping boundaries, Disney can't even get marvel cartoons right and cant even operate outside of their disney movie crossover universe that X-men would be weaker with just like Spiderman.

Marvel Studios does not produce the cartoons. As far as the crossover universe thing, you seem to be forgetting that the MCU has a mix of crossover stories and solo stories. (Come to think of it, that's just like the comics they're based on. Weird, isn't it?)

In an alternate reality.The James Mangold Ford vs Ferrari movie was the xmen movie we had this year (X23) not dark Phoenix.

You lost me.

Geez, wonder if Disney would have liked that idea for X23 as she is younger than Peter Parker that they turned into Peppa Pig,

Would like to see an X-23 project of some kind get off the ground. Heck, the All-New Wolverine comics would make for a great animated series, maybe something for the Y7 crowd, like the 2012 TMNT cartoon?

[Jokerz79]

The sweet concept of a silent majority or a split reality or where truth becomes stranger than fiction. Look no further than the sony/disney failed deal.




Some people on the xmen forums are bigger mcu fans than xmen fans which is fine but it means so little when people actually start to talk about the xmen universe.

I too have said fox butchered some aspect of xmen, many if you ask me. WB has butchered batman, Sony has done the same with Spiderman. Remember it is only in the MCU kingdom that no butchering take places (roll eyes), you still defend and love GOTG even though Disney butchered those movies compared to the comics. Despite fox Butchering, they would still have been a better option than the disney mcu crossover universe. I see it more as the lesser of two evils.

Fox could at least make xmen movies are not worry about overstepping boundaries, Disney can't even get marvel cartoons right and cant even operate outside of their disney movie crossover universe that X-men would be weaker with just like Spiderman.


In an alternate reality.The James Mangold Ford vs Ferrari movie was the xmen movie we had this year (X23) not dark Phoenix. Geez, wonder if Disney would have liked that idea for X23 as she is younger than Peter Parker that they turned into Peppa Pig,

I have to give Disney some credit after seeing they had Fox Searchlight release Hitler Reacting to Jojo Rabbit

[Midvillian1322]

I have to give Disney some credit after seeing they had Fox Searchlight release Hitler Reacting to Jojo Rabbit

Haha that **** is hilarious. I'm a polynesian jew so I got an extra kick out of it. Now this thread is ridiculous but I'm glad I peeked in to see that. Lol thank you made my day