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  1. #1
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Default The Problems with the Crossover Universe Phenomenon

    As Spiderman exits the MCU, is it time we all admit the truth that the real appeal of a cinematic crossover is only truly appealing to comic book characters no one ever heard about? Marvel had Spiderman, X-Men , Daredevil and Fantastic 4. They were their well known marvel characters, so they got sold off to different studios with the least chance of a crossover universe.

    DC had Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, not once was it ever a possibility that Batman needed to appear in superman 1978. I know DC toiled with a JL movie in the 90s but nothing came off it and if anything had, it was not meant to be like Avengers.

    Are crossovers cinematic movies as highly appealing as some people make them out to be in a broader context when it concerns superhero IPs that were already established. Is this the reason many people who grew up liking of X-Men, Batman, Spiderman movies or their comics are usually the last people to get onboard with a crossover universe at the expense of loosing the unique appeal of those heroes and DC now wants to reboot Batman with Robert Pattinson without zero guarantee he would be part of the DCEU.

    Spiderman leaving the MCU has opened such a complicated conversation about superhero movies, I don' t think many of us are ready for it, regardless on what side you are on

  2. #2
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Not surprising, but I don’t agree.

    Also not surprising: you trying to claim your ideas as “truth”. You really need to look up what that word means sometime.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  3. #3
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Not surprising, but I don’t agree.

    Also not surprising: you trying to claim your ideas as “truth”. You really need to look up what that word means sometime.
    Ahh man come on dont take the bait.

  4. #4
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Ahh man come on dont take the bait.
    I’m bored at work.

    I was originally gonna post a link to a free blogging website.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  5. #5
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    I’m bored at work.

    I was originally gonna post a link to a free blogging website.
    Lol I was kidding.

  6. #6
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    As Spiderman exits the MCU, is it time we all admit the truth that the real appeal of a cinematic crossover is only truly appealing to comic book characters no one ever heard about? Marvel had Spiderman, X-Men , Daredevil and Fantastic 4. They were their well known marvel characters, so they got sold off to different studios with the least chance of a crossover universe.

    DC had Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, not once was it ever a possibility that Batman needed to appear in superman 1978. I know DC toiled with a JL movie in the 90s but nothing came off it and if anything had, it was not meant to be like Avengers.

    Are crossovers cinematic movies as highly appealing as some people make them out to be in a broader context when it concerns superhero IPs that were already established. Is this the reason many people who grew up liking of X-Men, Batman, Spiderman movies or their comics are usually the last people to get onboard with a crossover universe at the expense of loosing the unique appeal of those heroes and DC now wants to reboot Batman with Robert Pattinson without zero guarantee he would be part of the DCEU.

    Spiderman leaving the MCU has opened such a complicated conversation about superhero movies, I don' t think many of us are ready for it, regardless on what side you are on
    I don't think you can really make a correlation here. Spider-Man, Iron Man and Captain America all made over a billion dollars. As did lesser known (at the time) characters like Black Panther and Captain Marvel.

    We can maybe argue your arguement applies to DC as they seem to have much greater difficulty pulling off a cohensive shared universe (though that sort of sounds like a cop out). But it doesn't appear to be an issue with marvel at all.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    As Spiderman exits the MCU, is it time we all admit the truth that the real appeal of a cinematic crossover is only truly appealing to comic book characters no one ever heard about? Marvel had Spiderman, X-Men , Daredevil and Fantastic 4. They were their well known marvel characters, so they got sold off to different studios with the least chance of a crossover universe.

    DC had Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, not once was it ever a possibility that Batman needed to appear in superman 1978. I know DC toiled with a JL movie in the 90s but nothing came off it and if anything had, it was not meant to be like Avengers.

    Are crossovers cinematic movies as highly appealing as some people make them out to be in a broader context when it concerns superhero IPs that were already established. Is this the reason many people who grew up liking of X-Men, Batman, Spiderman movies or their comics are usually the last people to get onboard with a crossover universe at the expense of loosing the unique appeal of those heroes and DC now wants to reboot Batman with Robert Pattinson without zero guarantee he would be part of the DCEU.

    Spiderman leaving the MCU has opened such a complicated conversation about superhero movies, I don' t think many of us are ready for it, regardless on what side you are on
    Justice League Mortal almost happened in 2007 if not for the Australian Tax Breaks not happening and Writers Strike.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    I think the only truth about the crossover universe thing is that they're tricky to make well and that the state of the franchises involved has little to do with it.
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  9. #9
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    I'd say Spiderman did lose some uniqueness going to the MCU. He was kinda like Tony's squire or whatever but those movies did better than the amazing series. so I guess his appeal didn't suffer for it.

    Shared universes were never tried before the MCU because no one studio had the resources to put it all together. Now that Disney has done it successfully everyone is getting onboard. DC made the mistake of putting all there eggs in one basket for decades (Batman).

    As for X-men and F.F I can't see how being in the MCU is gonna hurt those chars. And I say that as someone who liked most of the X-Men movies and the first F.F movie.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Well, except that the whole thing being a crossover (shared universe) has helped make the MCU the biggest phenomenon that has happened in movies for a long time.

    Superman (1978) was the first big budget superhero movie ever made. The idea of a superhero movie done on a serious budget was in its infancy. Of course, they didn't consider taking it to it's next step for a long time.

    As Robert Redford said in an interview, one of the things that fascinated him about the MCU was that it was such an innovation. Nobody in doing big budget movies had ever done such a shared universe before.

    It seems to me that what happened with "Batman vs Superman" is obvious. It wasn't done in a way people wanted such a crossover to take place and went too far against peoples' expectations of those characters. As opposed to the MCU crossover, now in it's 23rd successful act.

    I also think that Marvel Comics was conceived of as a shared universe from the start while the early DC characters were not conceived of as existing in the same setting. So there is a factor that it feels a bit more forced with DC than with Marvel.
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    As Robert Redford said in an interview, one of the things that fascinated him about the MCU was that it was such an innovation. Nobody in doing big budget movies had ever done such a shared universe before.
    Technically, Star Trek did it first, but that was a TV medium primarily, and hasn't gotten nearly as mainstream.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  12. #12
    Incredible Member 5Eyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Well, except that the whole thing being a crossover (shared universe) has helped make the MCU the biggest phenomenon that has happened in movies for a long time.

    Superman (1978) was the first big budget superhero movie ever made. The idea of a superhero movie done on a serious budget was in its infancy. Of course, they didn't consider taking it to it's next step for a long time.

    As Robert Redford said in an interview, one of the things that fascinated him about the MCU was that it was such an innovation. Nobody in doing big budget movies had ever done such a shared universe before.

    It seems to me that what happened with "Batman vs Superman" is obvious. It wasn't done in a way people wanted such a crossover to take place and went too far against peoples' expectations of those characters. As opposed to the MCU crossover, now in it's 23rd successful act.

    I also think that Marvel Comics was conceived of as a shared universe from the start while the early DC characters were not conceived of as existing in the same setting. So there is a factor that it feels a bit more forced with DC than with Marvel.
    MCU took a big risk in making the solo films and a much bigger risk in making as a shared universe but it paid off, now it seems everyone is now trying to follow suit ..

    As for Comic, yeah I believe it is true that Marvel started a shared universe but let's not forget Marvel is much younger then DC and it was DC who first started they shared universe .. so props to them ..
    Last edited by 5Eyes; 08-25-2019 at 04:53 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Technically, Star Trek did it first, but that was a TV medium primarily, and hasn't gotten nearly as mainstream.
    I wouldn't call what the MCU pulled off comparable to Star Trek. Star Trek was telling one story in a big universe, the MCU did something much larger in scope.

  14. #14
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Just a point here on the whole shared universe - 1930s/40s Universal did it first with their monster movies. And then a couple decades later Toho did it with their giant monster movies.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Powerboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Just a point here on the whole shared universe - 1930s/40s Universal did it first with their monster movies. And then a couple decades later Toho did it with their giant monster movies.
    Oh, absolutely. I thought about that when I posted the statement. There was also the television shows "The Beverly Hillbillies", "Green Acres" and "Petticoat Junction" that existed in the same whacky world. Heck, even "Cannon" and "Barnaby Jones" had a crossover. I'm just talking about the sheer scale of the MCU "crossover".
    His name is CAPTAIN MARVEL.

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